# Ship High In Transit or how a new word **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 23, 2006, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-high-in-transit-or-how-a-new-word/341293 "2006-01-23T19:58:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2006, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-high-in-transit-or-how-a-new-word/341293/1 "2006-01-23T19:58:54Z")
Ship High In Transit or how a new word came into being. No SHIT! * * * Subject: manure trivia Just a little history lesson for the day. Enjoy! Manure: In the 16th and 17th centuries, everything had to be transported by ship and it was also before commercial fertilizer’s invention, so large shipments of manure were common. It was shipped dry, because in dry form it weighed a lot less than when wet, but once water (at sea) hit it, it not only became heavier, but the process of fermentation began again, of which a by product is methane gas. As the stuff was stored below decks in bundles you can see what could (and did) happen. Methane began to build up below decks and the first time someone came below at night with a lantern, BOOOOM! Several ships were destroyed in this manner before it was determined just what was happening. After that, the bundles of manure were always stamped with the term “Ship High In Transit” on them, which meant for the sailors to stow it high enough off the lower decks so that any water that came into the hold would not touch this volatile cargo and start the production of methane. Thus evolved the term "S.H.I.T ", (Ship High In Transport) which has come down through the centuries and is in use to this very day. You probably did not know the true history of this word. Neither did I. I had always thought it was a golf term. * * * Is there any truth in the above tale or is it just some more B.S? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2006, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-high-in-transit-or-how-a-new-word/341293/2 "2006-01-23T20:01:58Z")
Pure bullshit: [http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=shit&searchmode=none](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=shit&searchmode=none) ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2006, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-high-in-transit-or-how-a-new-word/341293/3 "2006-01-23T20:42:30Z")
Rule #1: It wasn’t until the 1940s that any currently used English word was created via an acronym; “radar” was probably the first. So, despite the urban legends, “golf,” “tip,” “posh,” “shit,” “fuck,” and any other word that existed before the 20th century (“shit” dates back the 1300s or earlier) was not formed by any acronymic phrase. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2006, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-high-in-transit-or-how-a-new-word/341293/4 "2006-01-23T23:01:38Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Rule #1: It wasn’t until the 1940s that any currently used English word was created via an acronym; “radar” was probably the first. Methinks sonar was earlier 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-high-in-transit-or-how-a-new-word/341293/5 "2006-01-24T00:22:57Z")
You **knew** I’d go look it up, didn’t you? According to the OED: radar 1941, sonar 1946 ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-high-in-transit-or-how-a-new-word/341293/6 "2006-01-24T00:38:36Z")
What about asdic? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-high-in-transit-or-how-a-new-word/341293/7 "2006-01-24T01:25:13Z")
> [@Steve Wright](#): > > What about asdic? We have a winner! Asdic: 1939. However, the OED shows no reference after 1959, so it’s been supplanted by sonar and is not a currently used English word. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-high-in-transit-or-how-a-new-word/341293/8 "2006-01-24T01:43:35Z")
> [@](#): > > is not a currently used English word It is currently used by anyone describing British anti-submarine warfare during WWII. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-high-in-transit-or-how-a-new-word/341293/9 "2006-01-24T02:10:01Z")
Shit is Germanic in origin. It is an antecedent of the Germanic root, _Scheiss_. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-high-in-transit-or-how-a-new-word/341293/10 "2006-01-24T02:41:23Z")
AWOL is certainly a candidate. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-high-in-transit-or-how-a-new-word/341293/11 "2006-01-24T03:44:08Z")
AWOL appears to be dated to 1919. ASDIC shows up in Wikipedia with (unclear) dates of 1917 and 1920. (The abbreviation is for the agency that developed it, so it may not have become a _word_ right away.) Wiki also shows SONAR with a 1931 date (and, again, the earlier date my be the abbreviation that had not yet become a _word_). (ASDIC and sonar both appear in the article on sonar.) On the other hand, I am wondering what criteria the O.E.D. is using. The idea that sonar was not a word prior to 1946 is silly. No one in the U.S. Navy was spelling it out as S O N A R throughout WWII (particularly since the “So” comes from the initial word rather than each being a separate initial). The word _acronym_, itself, is dated to 1943, so that time period is certainly when language followers began noting the phenomenon. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-high-in-transit-or-how-a-new-word/341293/12 "2006-01-24T04:02:36Z")
And of course we need to know if the letters “AWOL” were pronounced as a word-- A-WOL at that time. Or just read as letters, A W O L. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-high-in-transit-or-how-a-new-word/341293/13 "2006-01-24T06:14:18Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > We have a winner! Asdic: 1939. Okay. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-high-in-transit-or-how-a-new-word/341293/14 "2006-01-24T06:50:40Z")
> [@Case Sensitive](#): > > Okay. Oh, yeah, [cite](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_250) : pre-dating the late 1930’s/1940’s by a century. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-high-in-transit-or-how-a-new-word/341293/15 "2006-01-24T07:30:04Z")
I could also claim the “Jesus Fish”, or ichthys, which dates from at least the second century AD and represents acronymically the Greek _Iesous Christos Theou Uios Soter_, or “Jesus Christ Son Of God Saviour”. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-high-in-transit-or-how-a-new-word/341293/16 "2006-01-24T15:27:59Z")
[symbol]ICQUS[/symbol] is an interesting case. On the one hand, I have not (yet) found any serious scholarship supporting the notion that the early Christians actually used the acrostic/acronym in their symbolism. They clearly used the _image_ of a fish, but it is not clear that they ever inscribed or discussed its potential as an acronym. Thus, the association of “fish” with “Jesus Christ Son Of God Saviour” may be a much later invention. On the other hand, that (possibly later) connection is noted in the [Catholic Encyclopedia article on the Symbolism of Fish](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06083a.htm) dating to 1909–thus preceding ASDIC and AWOL, although not OK. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-high-in-transit-or-how-a-new-word/341293/17 "2006-01-24T15:35:01Z")
Interesting wikipedia article - Part of article below [Acronyms and initialisms](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronym) > [@](#): > > History > Acronyms and initialisms are a relatively new linguistic phenomenon, having only become popular during the 20th century. As literacy rates rose, the practice of referring to words by their first letters became increasingly convenient. The first recorded use of the word initialism in the Oxford English Dictionary (OED) is in 1899, and the first for acronym is in 1943. The word acronym comes from Greek: ακρος, akros, “topmost, extreme” + ονομα, onoma, “name”. > > Nonetheless, earlier examples of acronyms exist. The early Christians in Rome used a fish as a symbol for Jesus in part because of an acronym—fish in Greek is ΙΧΘΥΣ (ichthus), which was said to stand for Ιησους Χριστος Θεου Υιος Σωτηρ (Iesous CHristos THeou (h)Uios Soter: Jesus Christ, Son of God, Saviour). Evidence of this interpretation dates from the second and third centuries and is preserved in the catacombs of Rome. > > Initialisms are known to have been used in Rome dating back even earlier than the Christian era. For example, the official name for the Roman Empire (and the Republic before it) was abbreviated as SPQR (Senatus Populusque Romanus), showing a clear precedent. > > Acronyms have been widely used in Hebrew since at least the Middle Ages. Several important rabbis are referred to with acronyms of their names. For example, Baal Shem Tov is called Besht. The word Tanakh is also an acronym. > > Acronyms and initialisms often occur in jargon or as names of organizations because they often serve as abbreviations of long terms that are frequently referenced, so a shortened form is desirable. Militaries and government agencies frequently employ acronyms and initialisms, perhaps most famously the US Government and the so-called alphabet agencies of Franklin D. Roosevelt’s New Deal. The correct meaning of an acronym is frequently domain-specific knowledge, and many acronyms have different meanings in different domains. This has led some to use them to obfuscate meaning from those without such domain-specific knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-high-in-transit-or-how-a-new-word/341293/18 "2006-01-24T15:42:02Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > And of course we need to know if the letters “AWOL” were pronounced as a word-- A-WOL at that time. Or just read as letters, A W O L. Last night I dashed off an email to Michael Quinion, editor of the World Wide Words website. Included was a link to this thread and the question, “What would be the oldest acronym?” His answer: > [@](#): > > There is some doubt about this. The earliest I know of for sure is AWOL, > which newspaper evidence from 1918 shows was being said as a pronounceable > word.