# Shipping containers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [July 29, 2016, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shipping-containers/761180 "2016-07-29T11:19:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2016, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shipping-containers/761180/1 "2016-07-29T11:19:40Z")
In [this column](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/3299/where-did-all-these-shipping-containers-come-from) the Perfect Master mentions in passing NOAA’s report of containers’ impact on ecosystems when they fall off ships. Besides the fish, they can be a [hazard](http://www.oceannavigator.com/March-April-2013/A-legendary-offshore-danger/) to [sailors](http://www.yachtingworld.com/blogs/elaine-bunting/shipping-containers-lost-at-sea-61867) before they sink. Robert Redford’s [_All is Lost_](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2017038/combined) starts with a solo yachtsman waking up to find a container of sneakers has poked a hole in his boat. ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2016, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shipping-containers/761180/2 "2016-07-29T12:48:30Z")
Normally the drawings for the columns don’t draw my attention, but this one is racy enough, and includes an ambiguously written expletive suitable to get moralists up in arms. Well done ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2016, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shipping-containers/761180/3 "2016-07-29T18:16:43Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > Normally the drawings for the columns don’t draw my attention, but this one is racy enough, and includes an ambiguously written expletive suitable to get moralists up in arms. > > Well done I thought the ambiguity of what the label on that container says was quite impressive. ---
**Author:** ![PoppaSan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/poppasan/32/189_2.png) [@PoppaSan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoppaSan)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shipping-containers/761180/4 "2016-07-30T02:26:16Z")
At least the city of Chicago said they could only be stacked high enough for the NS-4 and previous robots to climb into. Provided they were on the Lake Michigan landfill. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shipping-containers/761180/5 "2016-07-30T12:21:08Z")
What is the “Great Coral Reef”? Do you mean the Great Barrier Reef? Also it’s a myth that thousands of containers fall from ships every year. Exceptionally bad years aside its about [500](http://gcaptain.com/how-many-shipping-containers-lost-at-sea/)/year. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shipping-containers/761180/6 "2016-07-30T12:37:29Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > What is the “Great Coral Reef”? Do you mean the Great Barrier Reef? > > Also it’s a myth that thousands of containers fall from ships every year. Exceptionally bad years aside its about [500](http://gcaptain.com/how-many-shipping-containers-lost-at-sea/)/year. From your own link it is fair to say “thousands” is correct. They have some weird accounting where they don’t count “catastrophic” events, that are responsible for, guess what, thousands of lost containers. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shipping-containers/761180/7 "2016-07-30T12:53:52Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > From your own link it is fair to say “thousands” is correct. > > They have some weird accounting where they don’t count “catastrophic” events, that are responsible for, guess what, thousands of lost containers. As the link says this was due to two exceptional casualties. Otherwise the numbers are much lower. ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shipping-containers/761180/8 "2016-07-30T14:06:33Z")
Ideas for new gag t-shirt: > [@](#): > > I was diving for Sunken Treasure and all I got was a shipping container full of soggy Nikes. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shipping-containers/761180/9 "2016-07-30T20:14:43Z")
The column cites the “relative strength of the American dollar” as one of the forces driving the direction and amount of trade between the US and China. I thought the Chinese expressly pegged their currency to the dollar, though, such that a rising dollar would not make Chinese goods cheaper for Americans. Am I mistaken? ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shipping-containers/761180/10 "2016-07-30T20:49:19Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > The column cites the “relative strength of the American dollar” as one of the forces driving the direction and amount of trade between the US and China. I thought the Chinese expressly pegged their currency to the dollar, though, such that a rising dollar would not make Chinese goods cheaper for Americans. Am I mistaken? The fixed pegging of the yuan to the dollar ended in 2005, however, the PRC still controls the currency to a narrow trading range. It used to be horribly undervalued but now is only [modestly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renminbi) so. Being undervalued, presumably what Cecil refers to, does help make Chinese exports cheaper and US imports more expensive. It’s the absolute value of the exchange rate, not the delta in the exchange rate that matters the most. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2016, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shipping-containers/761180/11 "2016-07-31T12:40:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Princhester** : > > As the link says this was due to two exceptional casualties. Otherwise the numbers are much lower. If there were two such casualties, how exceptional can they be? And to the original topic, I’ve heard that one of the major Japanese car companies bought up a bunch of American soybean farms, just so they would have a product they could ship back in their otherwise-empty freighters. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2016, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shipping-containers/761180/12 "2016-07-31T14:53:42Z")
\*\*Cecil \*\*writes: > [@](#): > > There’s a catch or two, though, as pointed out in a 2011 article at the architecture website ArchDaily. Designed to stand up to all sorts of weather, shipping containers come coated with some pretty toxic stuff — think lead-based paint — that has to be stripped off before they’re inhabitable, and their plywood floors contain things like arsenic to keep pests away. “The average container eventually produces nearly a thousand pounds of hazardous waste before it can be used as a structure,” ArchDaily notes. “All of this, coupled with the fossil fuels required to move the container into place with heavy machinery, contribute significantly to its ecological footprint.” However unsexy, it’s often greener and cheaper to just build a new wood-framed structure than to repurpose a container. But, something has to be done with them. Don’t we have to deal with the toxins anyway at some point? How do we dispose of the things? Dump them in landfills, lead paint, arsenic and all? I’d expect a website called ArchDaily to be opposed to anything that might compete with hiring lots of architects to build new homes from scratch. ---
**Author:** ![srzss05](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@srzss05](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/srzss05)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shipping-containers/761180/13 "2016-07-31T15:22:37Z")
I’m more shocked that containers that I loaded (some by hand) lost cargo…Rage…Rage…Rage… ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2016, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shipping-containers/761180/14 "2016-07-31T16:30:35Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > But, something has to be done with them. Don’t we have to deal with the toxins anyway at some point? How do we dispose of the things? Dump them in landfills, lead paint, arsenic and all? It doesn’t sound like any bigger problem than what we dump in landfills already. The plywood flooring is just like the pressure treated wood used in construction all over the place. The arsenic and other toxins will leach slowly into the ground whence they came. Lead is bigger problem, encapsulated in paint it can stay more concentrated, but modern paints should take centuries to decay buried underground. It doesn’t sound worse than the crap landfills are full of already. As long as they aren’t rapidly leaching toxins into ground water they shouldn’t be a new problem. Of course the easy way to dispose of them is dump them in the ocean. We could fill them with a lot of other crap we don’t want first. As long as it’s stuff that doesn’t float and decomposes slowly it won’t be a problem. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2016, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shipping-containers/761180/15 "2016-07-31T19:06:42Z")
How do we dispose of these containers currently? A writer for an architect magazine says it’s more expensive and fossil fuel intensive to strip paint, remove some plywood flooring and use a crane to move it around than build an entirely new wood structure. Any second opinions? Are there any plans for building all new wood structures for homeless people? Are there plans for building all new wood structures to house refugees from war or natural disaster? "Cause the container-as-housing guys have a plan. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2016, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shipping-containers/761180/16 "2016-07-31T23:12:39Z")
In the US, are “companies” still buying and paint their own shipping containers? Or does that refer to “shipping companies”? Most of the shipping containers in Aus are owned by a very few shipping compnaies (the same is true for pallets). It is, of course, impossible to buy a new shipping container in AUS, because they are all made in China, and have been used on at least one trip from China to Aus before the are available for sale. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shipping-containers/761180/17 "2016-08-01T02:04:15Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If there were two such casualties, how exceptional can they be? Exceptional. The loss of the “MOL Comfort” was the worst container ship disaster in history. The “Rena” was not too far behind. In the three years 2008-10 the yearly average including catastrophes was 675. There’s a reason that the article to which I linked splits the statistics between routine operation losses and catastrophes: the “10,000” figure was thrown around with gay abandon and no factual backing as the figure for the number of containers just lost as a consequence of routine securing failures, not as the figure for containers lost in shipwrecks. The other point to bear in mind is that when a ship loses containers during bad weather or similar, the containers are not usually recovered and end up on the seabed (as Cec says). But when a ship like the Rena or MOL Comfort wrecks, the containers may be lost overboard, but there is a casualty response that often results in containers being rounded up en masse. So they may be lost in the sense of being wetted and maybe wrecked, but not in the sense they go to a permanent watery grave. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shipping-containers/761180/18 "2016-08-01T09:26:47Z")
> [@Cecil](#): > > Housing aside, another proposed solution to the empty-container problem is the “gray box”: moving away from the current practice of companies owning, painting, and labeling their own containers, and toward a more fluid, coordinated system where everybody draws from a collective pool, the boxes reassigned as needed. There’s the [Container Owners Association](http://www.containerownersassociation.org/) which may be of interest. I remember a while back there was an investment scheme that failed. You had individual people owning containers (or shares in containers) and an agency managed them. This was fine while the container was on the main trade routes but if the container ended up in the back of beyond the owners had to pay for the container to be retrieved. More recently: [http://moneymag.com.au/buying-shipping-container-wise-investment/](http://moneymag.com.au/buying-shipping-container-wise-investment/) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shipping-containers/761180/19 "2016-08-01T10:45:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Exceptional. The loss of the “MOL Comfort” was the worst container ship disaster in history. The “Rena” was not too far behind. If the worst in history was not too far ahead of the second-worst, then they’re not exceptional. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shipping-containers/761180/20 "2016-08-01T12:51:04Z")
That is a non sequitur. Quite simply they don’t happen very often. That the MOL Comfort and the Rena happened in reasonably close proximity was an atypical thing. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shipping-containers/761180.md?page=2)