# "Shit-eating grin" - origin? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 24, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eating-grin-origin/653851 "2013-03-24T21:33:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eating-grin-origin/653851/21 "2018-02-12T15:48:37Z")
It’s a mystery how a phrase like that can spread so widely without having been in either movies or popular literature. I asked once about “eating a mile of her shit”, a phrase I’ve heard on both sides of the continent, and never got a satisfactory answer as to how it could have been popularised. ---
**Author:** ![Ex\_Bubblehead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ex_bubblehead/32/3397_2.png) [@Ex\_Bubblehead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ex_Bubblehead)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eating-grin-origin/653851/22 "2018-02-12T16:24:40Z")
An awful lot of such phrases come from military services where such is just the idle chit-chat. ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eating-grin-origin/653851/23 "2018-02-12T16:51:40Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > It’s a mystery how a phrase like that can spread so widely without having been in either movies or popular literature. I asked once about “eating a mile of her shit”, a phrase I’ve heard on both sides of the continent, and never got a satisfactory answer as to how it could have been popularised. Humans have been writing a variety of literature for a great deal longer than there have been movies or internet. When you ask, “Where’d that expression come from?”, and someone goes to an unabridged dictionary for the answer, they’re going to get examples from literature. Or court cases. Or newspapers, back when they were hotbeds of discontent and/or philosophical ramblings instead of just current events. Or poetry. That’s pretty much the answer such a thread as this will have, if it has one at all. Words like “copacetic” which is meaningless, except cited in American literature to mean … nothing at all. Or even my question regarding “duck soup” from quite a long time ago. [Duck soup -- the expression not the film - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=616592) As for eating a mile of an attractive woman’s shit, that could be an expression of declaration to get closer to the general area of the respective orifice. For purposes well defined in human poetry since Og for some reason couldn’t club and abduct a particular Og-ette back to his cave. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eating-grin-origin/653851/24 "2018-02-13T19:49:32Z")
> [@Phil\_K5](#): > > It originated with Robert Nye (he’s brilliant - try to read some of his stuff) not sure if it was Merlin or Faust - when he repeatedly says the phrase “…and he grinned. He grinned like a fox eating shit out of a wire brush” - it had never been done prior to this. The next time I heard it was on TV about 25 years later. The book was from late 70s I think. It has been copied many many times since and no-one has the grace to give credit to a fantastic and image-full writing. You can imagine the grin ! From the Oxford Dictionary of Modern Slang. by John Ayto and John Simpson. Oxford Reference Online. Oxford University Press. > [@](#): > > 1. shit-eating grin: (a) a broad grin expressing uncontrollable delight or (self-)satisfaction, esp. at having got away with something outrageous or improper. 1957–. That first cite appears to be from New World Writing, Issue 10 > [@](#): > > “The clerk supported himself on the typewriter, collecting himself. He noticed the mail clerk leaning over the half-door, trying to see Greaves around the corner of the wall. “You’ve got the most shit-eating grin I ever saw,” he said. …” ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eating-grin-origin/653851/25 "2018-02-13T20:32:54Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > From the Oxford Dictionary of Modern Slang. by John Ayto and John Simpson. Oxford Reference Online. Oxford University Press. > That first cite appears to be from New World Writing, Issue 10 So what samclem posted 5 years ago in post #7. I did find a cite that appears to predate that by more than 15 years though: _The One-Eyed Man Is King: A Story of Winning_ by Gordon Graham, from 1940 > [@](#): > > Red was all business. “I don’t have any cigarettes. Hell, I don’t even smoke.” I didn’t like this. “You can order them at the commissary if you’ve got money on your books,” Red said. A shit-eating grin spread across his face. ---
**Author:** ![BuckChongo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@BuckChongo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BuckChongo)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eating-grin-origin/653851/26 "2018-02-14T01:29:07Z")
I always heard it as grinnin like a possum eating shit, a completely different meaning because the possum doesn’t think he’s getting away with anything, possum just happy to be eating some shit. ---
**Author:** ![Backwater\_Under\_Duck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@Backwater\_Under\_Duck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Backwater_Under_Duck)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eating-grin-origin/653851/27 "2018-02-14T01:41:27Z")
> [@Ex\_Bubblehead](#): > > An awful lot of such phrases come from military services where such is just the idle chit-chat. Careful with that without a cite. Slippery slope. Maybe it could have been a _whole nine yards_ of shit-eating grin. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eating-grin-origin/653851/28 "2018-02-14T15:49:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I doubt this is the origin, but whenever I hear the expression I think of a dog who’s found the litter box. Yes, that’s where I thought it came from. A dog eating feces has a weird expression, like a grin. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eating-grin-origin/653851/29 "2018-02-14T22:19:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I doubt this is the origin, but whenever I hear the expression I think of a dog who’s found the litter box. > [@TriPolar](#): > > I always thought something like that was the origin. I’ve seen the shit eating grin on dogs. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, that’s where I thought it came from. A dog eating feces has a weird expression, like a grin. My money is on that origin. I’ve even heard the variation “grinning like a dog eating shit”. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eating-grin-origin/653851/30 "2018-02-15T02:46:26Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > My money is on that origin. I’ve even heard the variation “grinning like a dog eating shit”. It’s possible. But in all these etymology questions there are usually a thousand scenarios that fit if you want them to but turn out to have nothing to do with the origin. Just like “The whole 9 yards” could possibly have been about the length of ammo belts or football fields or bolts of fabric, etc. Maybe this new cite that apparently OED doesn’t even list will open a new line of investigation for some of our board etymologists. It seems odd that it was used as if a common phrase in a book from 1940 and then not again anywhere until 1956. Maybe the book I cited was republished years later and google keeps the original publishing date on the content. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eating-grin-origin/653851/31 "2018-02-15T04:24:24Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > Maybe this new cite that apparently OED doesn’t even list will open a new line of investigation for some of our board etymologists. It seems odd that it was used as if a common phrase in a book from 1940 and then not again anywhere until 1956. Maybe the book I cited was republished years later and google keeps the original publishing date on the content. Every bit of evidence I can find indicates that the book “The One Eyed Man Is King: A Story of Winning” was published in 1982. I have no idea why Google Books gives it a 1940 date, but if your search inside for 1982 you bring up a snippet that says explicitly that it was published in 1982. Worldcat says 1982 and the earliest copies available for sale I can find are also from 1982. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eating-grin-origin/653851/32 "2018-02-15T04:44:13Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Every bit of evidence I can find indicates that the book “The One Eyed Man Is King: A Story of Winning” was published in 1982. I have no idea why Google Books gives it a 1940 date, but if your search inside for 1982 you bring up a snippet that says explicitly that it was published in 1982. Worldcat says 1982 and the earliest copies available for sale I can find are also from 1982. [Book Depository](https://www.bookdepository.com/One-Eyed-Man-Is-King-Gordon-Graham/9780961635305) and [Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fiction-Gordon-Graham-Subject/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=n%3A349788011%2Cp_27%3AGordon%20Graham)both also list the publishing date as June 1, 1940. But before even doing the search you suggest I’m convinced it’s an error that spread across multiple sites. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eating-grin-origin/653851/33 "2018-02-15T19:40:32Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > It’s possible. But in all these etymology questions there are usually a thousand scenarios that fit if you want them to but turn out to have nothing to do with the origin. Just like “The whole 9 yards” could possibly have been about the length of ammo belts or football fields or bolts of fabric, etc. t. What is the origin of Whole Nine Yards, then? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eating-grin-origin/653851/34 "2018-02-15T20:18:05Z")
A related term I’ve heard a few times is “shit-eating moustache”. This invariably refers to a very slight, thin moustache … ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eating-grin-origin/653851/35 "2018-02-15T21:17:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > What is the origin of Whole Nine Yards, then? > 😕 I’m not sure that has been determined. samclem and Tammi Terrell can probably give you the latest thinking on the subject. There are eleventy zillion threads here about it dating back almost 20 years up until just pretty recently when I recall some breakthrough had been made. And of course an [SD column](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/504/whats-the-origin-of-the-whole-nine-yards/) with a lot of updates. Here’s one at random to get started. [the whole nine yards - Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports - Straight Dope Message Board](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=550944) ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eating-grin-origin/653851/36 "2018-02-15T21:20:46Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > What is the origin of Whole Nine Yards, then? > 😕 > **[The Whole Nine Yards About a Phrase’s Origin (Published 2012)](https://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/27/books/the-whole-nine-yards-seeking-a-phrases-origin.html?ref=arts)** > > Word sleuths, in hot pursuit of the origin of the phrase “the whole nine yards,” have made a discovery that sheds light on the mystery. > **[You can quote them](https://www.yalealumnimagazine.com/articles/3587)** > > The inflation of cloud seven andthe whole six yards. It goes back to at least 1912, as “the whole six yards” with our current version attributed to inflation. There’s no clear meaning of the exact origins, but the numeral appears to be fairly unimportant. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eating-grin-origin/653851/37 "2018-02-15T22:11:50Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > I’m not sure that has been determined. samclem and Tammi Terrell can probably give you the latest thinking on the subject. There are eleventy zillion threads here about it dating back almost 20 years up until just pretty recently when I recall some breakthrough had been made. And of course an [SD column](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/504/whats-the-origin-of-the-whole-nine-yards/) with a lot of updates. > Here’s one at random to get started. [the whole nine yards - Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports - Straight Dope Message Board](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=550944) Yes, that is what I thought. We arent sure. So, maybe the ammo belt thing (dubious, since **Telemark** s cites show a “whole six yards” rather earlier)) could have something to do with the origin. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eating-grin-origin/653851/38 "2018-02-15T22:36:20Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, that is what I thought. We arent sure. So, maybe the ammo belt thing (dubious, since **Telemark** s cites show a “whole six yards” rather earlier)) could have something to do with the origin. I don’t remember the details but the three examples I gave (ammo, football, fabric) had all been ruled out as possibilities based on, I dont remember. But within the many threads here on the subject the latest theory is available. I seem to remember the ‘main’ whole 9 yards thread is in comments on cecil’s columns, updated maybe a year or two ago with breaking news. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eating-grin-origin/653851.md?page=1)