# Shit-eyed boy damages painting. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 1, 2006, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eyed-boy-damages-painting/346619 "2006-03-01T15:43:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eyed-boy-damages-painting/346619/41 "2006-03-01T16:56:47Z")
> [@BoBettie](#): > > How can anyone find this acceptable “kids will be kids” behavior? 1. Who in this thread has found it acceptable behavior? 2. Given your Internet Warrior machismo, talking about the violence you would commit against this kid, why should I value your child-rearing opinions? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eyed-boy-damages-painting/346619/42 "2006-03-01T16:59:02Z")
Ah, and now we come to the part of the pit thread where **Left Hand of Dorkness** takes us all on a self-righteous tour of the land of the over sensitive. It was fun while it lasted. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eyed-boy-damages-painting/346619/43 "2006-03-01T17:02:04Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > in fact, I’d couple it with having him pay, at minimum, part of the labor costs of cleaning it up. Better yet, make him paint a new painting to replace the one he vandalized. 🙂 Seriously, though, I tend to agree with **George Kaplin**. But I also agree with you guys who are saying, “$1.5 million for _that_? WTF? If I had an extra $1.5 million to spend, there’s no way in hell that that’s what I’d spend it on.” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eyed-boy-damages-painting/346619/44 "2006-03-01T17:03:03Z")
> [@Slacker](#): > > Ah, and now we come to the part of the pit thread where **Left Hand of Dorkness** takes us all on a self-righteous tour of the land of the over sensitive. It was fun while it lasted. Heya, cretin! The thread started with someone freaking out over a piece of gum on a painting, something that’s easily cleaned up. We’ve never been **out** of the land of the oversensitive. But if it helps you to fantasize about me, have at it. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eyed-boy-damages-painting/346619/45 "2006-03-01T17:03:12Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > What the hell with the “no big deal” attitude? > > You don’t like the painting? And that’s relevant how? > > The kid is twelve, not five. Twelve is more than old enough to know that other people’s property is to be respected. It’s more than old enough to know that the proper way to dispose of gum is to throw it into the trash. It’s more than old enough to absorb the “Don’t. Touch. ANYTHING.” warning he doubtless received from both his teacher and the museum guide. > > If that was my kid, I’d kick his ass. Exactly. Twelves is plenty old enough to know better. Jesus Christ. **Left Hand** , tell me, have you ever worked in a museum? It’s not just the gum stain. The saliva will also contribute to the damage. Yes, they may be able to remove the chemical stain, but over time, it could still fade and show up again. And they’re lucky it’s only a stain-the gum could have peeled off some of the paint, or torn the canvas. Museum employees can’t even touch artifacts without wearing special gloves. Yet it’s not a big deal for some dumb punk to stick his fucking gum on it? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eyed-boy-damages-painting/346619/46 "2006-03-01T17:05:12Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > **Left Hand** , tell me, have you ever worked in a museum? It’s not just the gum stain. The saliva will also contribute to the damage. Yes, they may be able to remove the chemical stain, but over time, it could still fade and show up again. And they’re lucky it’s only a stain-the gum could have peeled off some of the paint, or torn the canvas. No. Have you ever restored a painting? If not, I’ll take the word of the professionals over your suppositions, thanks much. > [@Thudlow Boink](#): > > Better yet, make him paint a new painting to replace the one he vandalized. Hmmm…naw. I want him to have to **work** at restitution. Fifteen minutes with a palette and a bottle of cheap gin won’t cut it. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eyed-boy-damages-painting/346619/47 "2006-03-01T17:20:15Z")
Twelve year olds are not idiots. They are not lacking in mental function. They are capable of evaluating situations, weighing good and bad, and making decisions. Sure, sometimes 12 year olds make stupid decisions. I’m sure I did when I was 12 as well. Sticking a piece of fucking gum on a painting in a fucking museum is not a ‘stupid decision’. It’s a malicious, idiotic, deliberate action, for which he should have known better, and his age in no way shape or form excuses him. **Left Hand** , I almost always agree with you, but I think you are so far off on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eyed-boy-damages-painting/346619/48 "2006-03-01T17:23:49Z")
The kid needs punched in the throat for vandalizing it, and the museum curator (or whomever bought it) needs punched in the throat for paying $1.5 million for that piece of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eyed-boy-damages-painting/346619/49 "2006-03-01T17:24:07Z")
> [@Helen's Eidolon](#): > > Twelve year olds are not idiots. They are not lacking in mental function. They are capable of evaluating situations, weighing good and bad, and making decisions. Sure, sometimes 12 year olds make stupid decisions. I’m sure I did when I was 12 as well. > > Sticking a piece of fucking gum on a painting in a fucking museum is not a ‘stupid decision’. It’s a malicious, idiotic, deliberate action, for which he should have known better, and his age in no way shape or form excuses him. **Left Hand** , I almost always agree with you, but I think you are so far off on this one. So what do you propose shoudl be done about it? Or are you instead suggesting that, from this one incident, we may conclude that this child is an asshole, a prick, a thug, etc.? Yes, it was malicious, idiotic, and deliberate. It’s also not out of the range of normal adolescent behavior. THAT’S WHY WE DON’T TREAT KIDS LIKE ADULTS: they lack adult judgment capacities, they lack self-control, they lack experience. No, not all kids have done this. Some kids have punched someone in the nose, a far more seriously antisocial behavior. Other kids have done other stupid, malicious, idiotic things. In fact, I"d say that every one of you did something stupid, malicious, and idiotic when you were a kid–anyone denying that? I’m not saying to ignore such behavior: I’m saying to use appropriate consequences. I am saying it’s stupid and idiotic to make judgment calls about a child’s personality based on the stupidest thing they do. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eyed-boy-damages-painting/346619/50 "2006-03-01T17:28:28Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > …THAT’S WHY WE DON’T TREAT KIDS LIKE ADULTS… I guess you’ve missed all those kids being prosecuted as adults in the last 15 years? ---
**Author:** ![Monstera\_deliciosa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monstera_deliciosa/32/109_2.png) [@Monstera\_deliciosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstera_deliciosa)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eyed-boy-damages-painting/346619/51 "2006-03-01T17:29:27Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > You, I assume, did nothing stupid as a child? what pray tell was your secret? My secret was that I was a good kid, and not a little jerk. I did stupid things as a child, and as a 45-year old adult I am able to admit that I still do stupid things, but I can honestly say I have never purposefully damaged something that wasn’t mine. I am more than happy to cut a kid some slack when they do something not-so-bright without thinking. Sticking gum on a painting does not fall into that category for me. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eyed-boy-damages-painting/346619/52 "2006-03-01T17:31:46Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > I guess you’ve missed all those kids being prosecuted as adults in the last 15 years? How many 12 years olds was that out of interest? I never heard of a twelve year old being prosecuted as an adult. Jim ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eyed-boy-damages-painting/346619/53 "2006-03-01T17:32:01Z")
I hope he got a good spanking. ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eyed-boy-damages-painting/346619/54 "2006-03-01T17:39:01Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > It’s also not out of the range of normal adolescent behavior. You have a very low opinion of adolescents. I knew from the age of FIVE that littering is bad. This is worse than a kid getting in a fistfight, at least in that case the kid would have a reason (even if it was a stupid one) for doing what he did. There is no good reason for doing this, and I think 12 is way old enough for a kid to know this isn’t something you should do. If it was my kid, he’d be paying the total restoration costs AND volunteering at the museum AND writing letters to the painter and the owner of the painting telling them he was sorry. And just to drive the point home, I’d kick his ass. I kind of like the painting. But I don’t 1.5 million dollars like it. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eyed-boy-damages-painting/346619/55 "2006-03-01T17:40:31Z")
> [@Helen's Eidolon](#): > > Sticking a piece of fucking gum on a painting in a fucking museum is not a ‘stupid decision’. It’s a malicious, idiotic, deliberate action, for which he should have known better, and his age in no way shape or form excuses him. Sticking a piece of gum _anywhere_ is idiotic. Every person, twelve years old or not, should be made to eat all the stuck gum in a one mile radius for each piece they put anywhere besides a trash can. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eyed-boy-damages-painting/346619/56 "2006-03-01T17:40:42Z")
I think the painting is fugly, and kind of useless, but that’s IMO. I do think the kid should have known better. I did, and many other kids in my classes did. We went to museums all the time and didn’t damage anything. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eyed-boy-damages-painting/346619/57 "2006-03-01T17:41:13Z")
> [@What Exit?](#): > > How many 12 years olds was that out of interest? I never heard of a twelve year old being prosecuted as an adult. > > Jim By no means is it a comparable case, but, [Michigan v Abraham](http://www.courttv.com/archive/trials/abraham/101999_ctv.html) …Nathaniel Abraham. Abraham is on the trial for first-degree murder in the 1997 shooting death of 18-year-old Ronnie Lee Greene, Jr. Michigan prosecutors claim Abraham, only 11 at the time of the shooting… ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eyed-boy-damages-painting/346619/58 "2006-03-01T17:41:57Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > I hope you mean figuratively. If you mean literally, you’re a terrible parent. > > Figuratively? Sure. Kids do dumb things, and they need to learn the consequences of that. He needs to experience some serious consequences here. > > But it’s no big deal in the grand scheme of things. Kids disrespect property all the time, and parents and schools all the time have to teach them not to do so. Do you think it’s remotely unusual for a twelve-year-old to vandalize something? Do you think that in the history of property-owning humanity it’s ever been remotely unusual for a 12-year-old to vandalize something? > > That’s part of what they do. What parents and other responsible adults do is teach them why that’s unacceptable. That’s how the world works. > > Daniel I actually did mean figuratively, not that it’s particularly relevant. And while I appreciate your parenting advice, I sincerely hope that when/if you have your own, you don’t take quite such a laissez faire attitude toward their wanton destruction of property that is neither theirs nor yours. I hope that you keep in mind that the ultimate goal of child-rearing is not to create perfectly happy children, but reasonably functional adults. I think it \*\*should \*\* be unusual for a twelve year old to vandalize something, what with them being old enough to know better. My daughter would never have dreamed of doing something like that by the time she was _five_, because I’d long since taught her that other people feel the same way about their things that she feels about hers. That child needs to pay for the damage, he needs to do some community service, and if he was my child, he would have a prized posession of his damaged or destroyed as he watched. And it’s sincerely pissing me off that the quality of the painting itself is being treated as somehow relevant. Someone owns it. Someone presumably loves it. Does my assessment of your house as “ugly” diminish it’s value to you? ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eyed-boy-damages-painting/346619/59 "2006-03-01T17:42:16Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Heya, cretin! The thread started with someone freaking out over a piece of gum on a painting, something that’s easily cleaned up. We obviously drew different conclusions from the article. A stain that requires chemical research doesn’t fall under “easily cleaned up” in my book. ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eyed-boy-damages-painting/346619/60 "2006-03-01T17:46:17Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > I hope that you keep in mind that the ultimate goal of child-rearing is not to create perfectly happy children, but reasonably functional adults. This should be tattooed on the inside of every parent’s eyelids. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eyed-boy-damages-painting/346619.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-eyed-boy-damages-painting/346619.md?page=4)