# Shit just got real (FBI raids Trump lawyer) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 9, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-just-got-real-fbi-raids-trump-lawyer/812112 "2018-04-09T20:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Running\_with\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Running\_with\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Running_with_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-just-got-real-fbi-raids-trump-lawyer/812112/1 "2018-04-09T20:28:10Z")
[F.B.I. Raids Office of Trump’s Longtime Lawyer Michael Cohen](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/09/us/politics/fbi-raids-office-of-trumps-longtime-lawyer-michael-cohen.html?emc=edit_na_20180409&nl=breaking-news&nlid=2330713ing-news&ref=headline) I can’t help but feel more than a little schadenfreude. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-just-got-real-fbi-raids-trump-lawyer/812112/2 "2018-04-09T20:37:19Z")
I think your title could have been a bit more descriptive. But I’ll be following the news, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-just-got-real-fbi-raids-trump-lawyer/812112/3 "2018-04-09T20:39:29Z")
Is this totally unexpected? Wouldn’t Cohen have removed anything of significance by now? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-just-got-real-fbi-raids-trump-lawyer/812112/4 "2018-04-09T20:41:20Z")
The investigation’s waveform was multiplied by its [complex conjugate](https://xkcd.com/849/)? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-just-got-real-fbi-raids-trump-lawyer/812112/5 "2018-04-09T20:48:07Z")
I’m grabbing popcorn and a beer. Lovely. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-just-got-real-fbi-raids-trump-lawyer/812112/6 "2018-04-09T21:20:30Z")
Trump: “Okay fine! I dare ya to cross THIS red line!” FBI: [shrugs] “Okay.” ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-just-got-real-fbi-raids-trump-lawyer/812112/7 "2018-04-09T21:30:52Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > Is this totally unexpected? Wouldn’t Cohen have removed anything of significance by now? There is always evidence. Lawyer accumulate vast numbers of documents. There will be something. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-just-got-real-fbi-raids-trump-lawyer/812112/8 "2018-04-09T21:35:07Z")
So the poo is no longer sham? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-just-got-real-fbi-raids-trump-lawyer/812112/9 "2018-04-09T21:44:49Z")
> [@Running\_with\_Scissors](#): > > [F.B.I. Raids Office of Trump’s Longtime Lawyer Michael Cohen](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/09/us/politics/fbi-raids-office-of-trumps-longtime-lawyer-michael-cohen.html?emc=edit_na_20180409&nl=breaking-news&nlid=2330713ing-news&ref=headline) > > I can’t help but feel more than a little schadenfreude. Why would they be seizing records of Trump’s payout to the porn star? 😕 > [@](#): > > The F.B.I. on Monday raided the office of President Trump’s longtime personal lawyer, Michael D. Cohen, seizing records related to several topics including payments to a pornographic-film actress. > > Federal prosecutors in Manhattan obtained the search warrant after receiving a referral from the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, according to Mr. Cohen’s lawyer, who called the search “completely inappropriate and unnecessary.” The search does not appear to be directly related to Mr. Mueller’s investigation, but likely resulted from information he had uncovered and gave to prosecutors in New York. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-just-got-real-fbi-raids-trump-lawyer/812112/10 "2018-04-09T21:49:06Z")
They are doing the Bill Clinton on him. Keep searching til you find something the person is dumb enough to lie about. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-just-got-real-fbi-raids-trump-lawyer/812112/11 "2018-04-09T22:07:57Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Why would they be seizing records of Trump’s payout to the porn star? 😕 Well, they might not really care about that. This is probably related to stuff Mueller turned up in his investigation. But Mueller has shown that he’s willing to throw the book at his targets. I wouldn’t be surprised if this was about something else and the Stormy Daniels stuff is just there in the same filing cabinet, so why not, especially since Donald & Cohen are both acting squirrelly about it. If Mueller wants to flip Cohen, this is a great first step. Elsewhere - Ken White at Popehat says this such a Big Deal - not just the initial tip from Mueller, but all the highlevel Federal employees that had to agree to this course of action - that it clearly signals that we are Witnessing history. [https://www.popehat.com/2018/04/09/the-search-of-trump-lawyer-michael-cohens-office-what-we-can-infer-immediately/](https://www.popehat.com/2018/04/09/the-search-of-trump-lawyer-michael-cohens-office-what-we-can-infer-immediately/) > [@Ken White](#): > > **This is a big deal.** It’s very early on, but here’s some things we can already tell. > > 1. According to Cohen’s own lawyer, the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York (widely regarded within itself as being the most important and prestigious U.S. Attorney’s Office in the country) secured the search warrants for the FBI. Assuming this report is correct, that means that a very mainstream U.S. Attorney’s Office — not just Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s office — thought that there was enough for a search warrant here. > > 2. Moreover, it’s not just that the office thought that there was enough for a search warrant. They thought there was enough for a search warrant of an attorney’s office for that attorney’s client communications. That’s a very fraught and extraordinary move that requires multiple levels of authorization within the Department of Justice. \ > > 3. A Magistrate Judge signed off on this. Federal magistrate judges (appointed by local district judges, not by the President) review search warrant applications. A Magistrate Judge therefore reviewed this application and found probable cause — that is, probable cause to believe that the subject premises (Cohen’s office) contains specified evidence of a specified federal crime. Now, Magistrate Judges sometimes are a little too rubber-stampy for my taste. But here, where the Magistrate Judge knew that this would become one of the most scrutinized search warrant applications ever, and because the nature of the warrant of an attorney’s office is unusual, you can expect that the Magistrate Judge felt pretty confident that there was enough there. Bolding in the original. Ken’s whole piece lays out why this is important. It’s worth everyone’s time to read, although the site is getting hammered. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-just-got-real-fbi-raids-trump-lawyer/812112/12 "2018-04-09T22:54:39Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > They are doing the Bill Clinton on him. Keep searching til you find something the person is dumb enough to lie about. Damage control in effect due to the number of lies that the guy’s already told. Hard to find the needle in a stack of needles. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-just-got-real-fbi-raids-trump-lawyer/812112/13 "2018-04-09T22:56:23Z")
Trump’s lawyer’s lawyer’s lawyer’s lawyer is going to need a lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-just-got-real-fbi-raids-trump-lawyer/812112/14 "2018-04-09T23:09:10Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Why would they be seizing records of Trump’s payout to the porn star? 😕 Because depending on where the money came from, it could violate campaign finance law. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-just-got-real-fbi-raids-trump-lawyer/812112/15 "2018-04-09T23:17:44Z")
Trump just spoke, he is such a dummy. This is when he really needs to zip the lip. Is there no one who can stop him? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-just-got-real-fbi-raids-trump-lawyer/812112/16 "2018-04-09T23:30:10Z")
Santorum (on CNN) is frothing at the…mouth, desperately trying to remind everyone that there’s still no evidence of collusion. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-just-got-real-fbi-raids-trump-lawyer/812112/17 "2018-04-09T23:31:27Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > … > > > [@](#): > > > > Moreover, it’s not just that the office thought that there was enough for a search warrant. They thought there was enough for a search warrant of an attorney’s office for that attorney’s client communications. That’s a very fraught and extraordinary move that requires multiple levels of authorization within the Department of Justice. I’d like to learn more about this. My layman’s understanding was that attorney-client communication is privileged and can’t be used as evidence. That’s apparently not always the case? Is it just a matter of getting a judge to sign off on an extra-special search warrant that has a “go ahead and disregard that attorney-client privilege bullshit” clause in it? Something else? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-just-got-real-fbi-raids-trump-lawyer/812112/18 "2018-04-09T23:32:09Z")
There’s a back and forth here. The scope of Mueller’s investigation includes any other crimes that he might unearth in the course of investigating the foreign connections. So, he unearthed information about Stormy Daniels and her NDA (which, let’s be honest, is really friggin’ easy to unearth). So, he looked into the Stormy Daniels thing in a little more detail, and found that there was a strong indication of a crime, there (probably the campaign finance thing). That means that he can get a search warrant for it. So the FBI busts in and looks for documents relating to the Daniels NDA. But in the course of a proper, warranted search, law enforcement can look in any place that might plausibly contain what the warrant says they’re looking for. They’re looking for documents, so they can look anywhere that might contain documents, including things like filing cabinets and shelves, and also including computers. And so long as they’re looking in places that might include whatever the warrant is for, anything else they find in those places is also valid evidence, even if it has nothing to do with whatever the warrant was for. So, for instance, if they find documents about Russian collusion on Cohen’s computer, that’s valid, legally obtained evidence. Or any other crimes they might find evidence of, for that matter (tax evasion, say). And they can then turn that evidence over to Mueller, who can perfectly legally use it in his primary investigation, or start a new side investigation for any new crimes. For extra irony, there probably weren’t actually any crimes committed with the NDA, because Trump probably did pay back Cohen, so it wasn’t actually a campaign contribution. But Trump’s reflexive need to lie about everything lead to him saying that he didn’t pay Cohen, and that lie created the probable cause for the warrant. TL;DR: Because Trump was really stupid about one crime that he might not have even committed (campaign finance violations relating to Stormy Daniels), Mueller now has complete access to any records of any other crimes he might find in the office of Trump’s personal lawyer. Want to bet there’s no evidence of any other crimes there? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-just-got-real-fbi-raids-trump-lawyer/812112/19 "2018-04-09T23:34:46Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Trump just spoke, he is such a dummy. This is when he really needs to zip the lip. Is there no one who can stop him? “Will no one rid me of this turbulent self?” ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-just-got-real-fbi-raids-trump-lawyer/812112/20 "2018-04-09T23:48:41Z")
I am waiting on the dog to wag. Syria is sitting over there with nobody to help them. I predict bombs flying by tomarrow night. Right in time for the 6o’clock news. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-just-got-real-fbi-raids-trump-lawyer/812112.md?page=2)