# Shit test/fitness test
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-test-fitness-test/633741
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [September 5, 2012, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-test-fitness-test/633741 "2012-09-05T12:48:18Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-test-fitness-test/633741/21 "2012-09-05T23:48:45Z")
> [@lisiate](#):
>
> **billfish678** , your “5% give or take a factor of 2” estimate is very close to my long-held belief that somewhere between 5 and 15% of people are assholes.
Not to continue the derail, but I believe that the rate of sociopathy is around 2-3% of the population.
Few sociopaths are women, though, and I don’t really think shit-testing is a sociopathic behavior, but more one born of extreme immaturity and dependency. Maybe.
---
### Author:  [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2012, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-test-fitness-test/633741/22 "2012-09-06T00:01:53Z")
My category of ‘asshole’ is much wider than sociopathy, and encompasses irredeemable jerks of all descriptions.
---
### Author:  [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2012, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-test-fitness-test/633741/23 "2012-09-06T00:18:48Z")
A “shit test”, in at least its original meaning (The Game and earlier), is quite common and people of both genders do it, and not just in pickup situations.
It can be something as simple as: Say I happen to mention a video game, and the person I’m talking to says something like “Oh, you play those things do you?” and most people will immediately go into a “No, no, no, just rarely” type response and come off weak (of course it might be true that you only play games rarely, but there are ways of saying that that don’t sound like you’re apologizing).
No-one is keeping a scorecard of “strong” or “weak”, or consciously testing anyone it’s just something that happens in many social interactions.
You pass a shit test by just being confident with who you are and not seeking approval.
Like most things in PUA, it’s actually a pretty positive message that got corrupted somewhere down the line, whether internally or externally I can’t say.
---
### Author:  [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2012, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-test-fitness-test/633741/24 "2012-09-06T00:32:01Z")
> [@lisiate](#):
>
> My category of ‘asshole’ is much wider than sociopathy, and encompasses irredeemable jerks of all descriptions.
Then I’ll up the number to around 5%, to include extremists and those so selfish that they are almost sociopathic. I don’t know who sucks harder.
---
### Author:  [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2012, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-test-fitness-test/633741/25 "2012-09-06T00:33:30Z")
> [@Mijin](#):
>
> A “shit test”, in at least its original meaning (The Game and earlier), is quite common and people of both genders do it, and not just in pickup situations.
>
> It can be something as simple as: Say I happen to mention a video game, and the person I’m talking to says something like “Oh, you play those things do you?” and most people will immediately go into a “No, no, no, just rarely” type response and come off weak (of course it might be true that you only play games rarely, but there are ways of saying that that don’t sound like you’re apologizing).
>
> No-one is keeping a scorecard of “strong” or “weak”, or consciously testing anyone it’s just something that happens in many social interactions.
>
> You pass a shit test by just being confident with who you are and not seeking approval.
> Like most things in PUA, it’s actually a pretty positive message that got corrupted somewhere down the line, whether internally or externally I can’t say.
PUA?
---
### Author:  [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2012, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-test-fitness-test/633741/26 "2012-09-06T00:38:48Z")
PUA = Pick Up Artist.
---
### Author:  [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-test-fitness-test/633741/27 "2012-09-06T00:39:11Z")
> [@Mijin](#):
>
> A “shit test”, in at least its original meaning (The Game and earlier), is quite common and people of both genders do it, and not just in pickup situations.
>
> It can be something as simple as: Say I happen to mention a video game, and the person I’m talking to says something like “Oh, you play those things do you?” and most people will immediately go into a “No, no, no, just rarely” type response and come off weak (of course it might be true that you only play games rarely, but there are ways of saying that that don’t sound like you’re apologizing).
>
> No-one is keeping a scorecard of “strong” or “weak”, or consciously testing anyone it’s just something that happens in many social interactions.
>
> You pass a shit test by just being confident with who you are and not seeking approval.
> Like most things in PUA, it’s actually a pretty positive message that got corrupted somewhere down the line, whether internally or externally I can’t say.
Shit-testing is an act of a fundamentally insecure person. Such people can rarely be trusted, IMHO.
---
### Author:  [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-test-fitness-test/633741/28 "2012-09-06T02:11:43Z")
> [@al27052](#):
>
> Most American women aren’t worth marrying, is the reality. \
That is an awfully broad brush you’re painting with there.
---
### Author:  [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2012, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-test-fitness-test/633741/29 "2012-09-06T02:29:20Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#):
>
> That is an awfully broad brush you’re painting with there.
American women make up about 3% of the total women on the planet, so…depends on your definition of “broad brush”.
And I was waiting for someone to shit-test me on that.😛
But yes, I think it’s usually true…mainly with the younger generation, though. My mom’s generation is pretty loyal, relatively. Younger girls, though, have a lot more options than my mom did at their age, plus more earning power…and they are not necessarily encouraged to “settle down”.
This becomes a problem when there’s a household, kids, friends/family in common, etc…
Roughly 2/3 of all divorces in America are filed by women. The younger generation of women in this country, on average, just cannot be trusted to be loyal, whatever you want to make of that.
---
### Author:  [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-test-fitness-test/633741/30 "2012-09-06T02:37:14Z")
> [@al27052](#):
>
> Roughly 2/3 of all divorces in America are filed by women. The younger generation of women in this country, on average, just cannot be trusted to be loyal, whatever you want to make of that.
I think you’re talking about submissiveness, not loyalty. Women of today are not content to be stuck in the house barefoot and pregnant doing whatever the man says. That doesn’t mean they’re not loyal, but they are not going to just sit back and be a servant to their husband.
---
### Author:  [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-test-fitness-test/633741/31 "2012-09-06T02:37:46Z")
Either that or men are just too apathetic to file papers and just walk out.
---
### Author:  [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-test-fitness-test/633741/32 "2012-09-06T02:49:45Z")
One thing’s for sure: whatever the explanation is, it only takes one sentence, and it’s either all men’s fault or all women’s fault.
---
### Author:  [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2012, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-test-fitness-test/633741/33 "2012-09-06T02:56:17Z")
> [@filmore](#):
>
> I think you’re talking about submissiveness, not loyalty. Women of today are not content to be stuck in the house barefoot and pregnant doing whatever the man says. That doesn’t mean they’re not loyal, but they are not going to just sit back and be a servant to their husband.
Let me put it this way…my wife’s not subservient to me. Hell, she’s got a Women’s Studies degree from Smith. She DOES, however, make an effort to keep me happy. Why? She’s loyal.
---
### Author:  [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-test-fitness-test/633741/34 "2012-09-06T02:58:35Z")
> [@lisiate](#):
>
> Either that or men are just too apathetic to file papers and just walk out.
This is part of the truth, no doubt. Certainly not the whole story, but definitely part of it. I agree that there are marriages that have no rational reason to continue, from either spouse’s POV, but where the man is just too lazy/apathetic to file for divorce. That’s not always what’s happening,
---
### Author:  [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2012, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-test-fitness-test/633741/35 "2012-09-06T03:18:12Z")
> [@Mijin](#):
>
> It can be something as simple as: Say I happen to mention a video game, and the person I’m talking to says something like “Oh, you play those things do you?” and most people will immediately go into a “No, no, no, just rarely” type response and come off weak (of course it might be true that you only play games rarely, but there are ways of saying that that don’t sound like you’re apologizing).
What I see there, looks like that sometimes someone may run into a _self-inflicted_ “shit test” by getting unnecessarily defensive.
> [@](#):
>
> No-one is keeping a scorecard of “strong” or “weak”, or consciously testing anyone it’s just something that happens in many social interactions.
OK, now just two sentences up you said that certain responses will come off as weak and must be rephrased. Yet now nobody’s keeping score of “weak”… or just not consciously.
That getting defensive when it’s uncalled for creates a negative impression, is something most of us knew all along. The PUA/Game people have a knack for taking what would be valid behavioral observations and putting them in terms that will tick off large swaths of the public.
Actual _deliberate_ “shit-testing” would be a dickish/bitchy thing to do.
---
### Author:  [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-test-fitness-test/633741/36 "2012-09-06T03:30:19Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#):
>
> \
> \ The PUA/Game people have a knack for taking what would be valid behavioral observations and putting them in terms that will tick off large swaths of the public.
Well, the people they’re trying to teach these skills to are, almost always, _seriously_ socially awkward/clueless. Plus they’re men.
That means you have to make it really, really simple and clear and obvious.
I don’t know if that’s sad or funny.
---
### Author:  [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2012, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-test-fitness-test/633741/37 "2012-09-06T05:38:33Z")
> [@al27052](#):
>
> Well, the people they’re trying to teach these skills to are, almost always, _seriously_ socially awkward/clueless. Plus they’re men.
>
> That means you have to make it really, really simple and clear and obvious. \
“Accurate” and “reality-based” would also be good. 🙂
---
### Author:  [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2012, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-test-fitness-test/633741/38 "2012-09-06T07:58:48Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#):
>
> What I see there, looks like that sometimes someone may run into a _self-inflicted_ “shit test” by getting unnecessarily defensive.
Well, no, not if your response to a shit-test is to _not_ get defensive.
A much better response to “Oh you play those things, do you?”, if you do actually play games is simply the truth: “Yes”.
> [@](#):
>
> That getting defensive when it’s uncalled for creates a negative impression, is something most of us knew all along. The PUA/Game people have a knack for taking what would be valid behavioral observations and putting them in terms that will tick off large swaths of the public.
The public seem to be very ticked off by the PUA concept, period.
But I agree there might be slightly less negative vibe if they were called “confidence tests” than “shit tests”.
---
### Author:  [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2012, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-test-fitness-test/633741/39 "2012-09-06T16:42:41Z")
> [@al27052](#):
>
> Hell, she’s got a Women’s Studies degree from Smith.
I wonder what she’d think about your broad, idiotic generalizations about American women in this thread.
---
### Author:  [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-test-fitness-test/633741/40 "2012-09-06T19:39:20Z")
> [@Mijin](#):
>
> You pass a shit test by just being confident with who you are and not seeking approval.
> Like most things in PUA, it’s actually a pretty positive message that got corrupted somewhere down the line, whether internally or externally I can’t say.
It sounds very negative the way you describe it. What’s so positive about being so insecure you need to test other people’s confidence?
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-test-fitness-test/633741.md?page=1)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shit-test-fitness-test/633741.md?page=3)