# Shittiest universities **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 14, 2024, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shittiest-universities/1007264 "2024-09-14T16:20:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2024, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shittiest-universities/1007264/21 "2024-09-14T18:29:26Z")
Gosh, GMU can’t be that bad! One of my friends has a degree from there and another was a professor there for years. Both are exceedingly smart, accomplished people. I confess I am not sure what this pitting is of. Liberty and Prager? The incompleteness of the list of bad schools? (Which incidentally is 41 schools, not 63. Maybe Liberty and Prager would appear between 42 and 63!) There are plenty of shitty, unethical schools out there for sure. My personal beef is with what were known (and probably still are) in Micronesia as “project schools.” These were mediocre-to-poor academically rated schools, typically in the American Northwest, who zeroed in on the fact that Micronesians are entitled to Pell grants as a result of the Compact of Free Association (a treaty between the US and three Micronesian nations). They therefore directed a lot of marketing efforts at wooing Micronesians so they could get a big slice of the Pell money. I am not automatically against this; hey, schools need money to servive, and if they have found a decent market niche, good for them. But they are morally obligated to provide proper services, then. In my view all “project schools” should have first-rate support services, including ESL classes specifically formulated for native speakers of Austronesian languages, and social/psychological support activities targeted expressly at the Micronesian communities on campus. Alas, when I lived in Micronesia - admittedly many years ago - at least some of these schools were not helping the students they wooed to attend. There were a number of suicides by young people who went to the US unprepared and couldn’t handle the stress. Not to say the schools were always entirely to blame, but it was pretty clear they were not stepping up the way the should have. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2024, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shittiest-universities/1007264/22 "2024-09-14T18:57:05Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > Disturbingly low graduation rates My undergraduate degree is from the University of Pittsburgh. I received an excellent education. _However_, (there’s always a however) I graduated with a few individuals who, while excelling in their $port, were barely literate and should not have received any degree. Disturbingly high graduation rates are just as bad as disturbingly low rates. Just my two cents on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2024, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shittiest-universities/1007264/23 "2024-09-14T19:03:33Z")
Many of these schools are HBCUs (historically black colleges and universities), art schools, and a few that are also aimed at Native American students. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2024, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shittiest-universities/1007264/24 "2024-09-14T19:20:45Z")
I don’t know about Liberty, but PragerU isn’t even an actual university. It’s an advocacy group that produces online media and (right wing) K-12 teaching materials. You can’t graduate from there. > **[PragerU](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PragerU)** > > Defunct > Economics > Gun rights > The **Prager University Foundation** , known as **PragerU** , is an American [501(c)(3)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501(c)(3)_organization) [nonprofit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonprofit_organization) [advocacy group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advocacy_group) and [media organization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_company) that creates content promoting [conservative](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism_in_the_United_States) and [capitalist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism) viewpoints on various political, economic, and sociological topics. It was co-founded in 2009 by [Allen Estrin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Estrin) and talk show host [Dennis Prager](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Prager). Despite the name including the word “university”, it is not an academic institution and does not confer degrees. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2024, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shittiest-universities/1007264/25 "2024-09-14T19:30:43Z")
I didn’t look at the link, but Johnson & Wales used to offer lots of certificate programs that students in majors would complete, then leave without finishing the major. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2024, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shittiest-universities/1007264/26 "2024-09-14T19:46:28Z")
> [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > with regard to Liberty at least, I think you are letting your animosity toward their religious structure to influence your opinion on their academics Sure, I’ll cop to a bit of a bias, but: > [@](#): > > …they exist in the vast swath of undistinguished yet perfectly adequate universities from whom a degree is not going to get you laughed out of a room. I’m finding it hard to see that degree _not_ get laughed out of a room, unless in _extremely_ niche markets. > [@CairoCarol](#): > > I confess I am not sure what this pitting is of. Liberty and Prager? The incompleteness of the list of bad schools? (Which incidentally is 41 schools, not 63. Maybe Liberty and Prager would appear between 42 and 63!) Mainly Liberty and Prager’s absence on a list, which, it must be said, is garnering less and less regard from me. (ha! the count! yeah, just a bit off) ---
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2024, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shittiest-universities/1007264/27 "2024-09-14T20:52:29Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > I’m finding it hard to see that degree _not_ get laughed out of a room, unless in _extremely_ niche markets. I don’t know what to tell you, but that just not the case, at least in the business and legal realms that I’m familiar with…Again, it’s not doing you any favors either, but it just doesn’t stand out one way or the other with respect to the quality of the _education_ you receive. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2024, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shittiest-universities/1007264/28 "2024-09-14T21:25:10Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > I’m finding it hard to see that degree _not_ get laughed out of a room, unless in _extremely_ niche markets. Look at the Wikipedia page on Liberty. They have all kinds of reputable programs. Engineering, piloting cybersecurity, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2024, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shittiest-universities/1007264/29 "2024-09-14T21:39:12Z")
Fair enough; acknowledged. Unrelated, out of curiosity, I took a boo at their website and on the first page, I wasn’t too enchanted with “Training Champions For Christ” being one of the most prominent things stated there. > **[Liberty University: A Christian University in Virginia and Online](https://www.liberty.edu/)** > > Liberty University has over 700 degrees at the bachelor's, master's, or doctoral level. Study at our beautiful campus in central Virginia or online from anywhere in the world! ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2024, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shittiest-universities/1007264/30 "2024-09-14T22:10:13Z")
Bingo. Their law school is named after Scalia. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2024, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shittiest-universities/1007264/31 "2024-09-14T23:18:11Z")
I was thinking more about their hosting of the [Mercatus Center](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercatus_Center), the best libertarian think tank that the Koch brothers can buy. But, in general, GMU is your basic public liberal-arts school that happens to be in close proximity to the national seat of political power, which makes some parts of it… attractive?.. to people trying to influence the polticians in that seat. ---
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shittiest-universities/1007264/32 "2024-09-17T17:21:49Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Bingo. Their law school is named after Scalia. You say that like it’s worthy of besmirchment. A conservative jurist no doubt, but a 30 year member of the Supreme Court and widely respected by both allies and opponents alike ([https://hls.harvard.edu/today/harvard-law-school-reflects-on-the-legacy-of-justice-scalia/](https://hls.harvard.edu/today/harvard-law-school-reflects-on-the-legacy-of-justice-scalia/)). You could do worse than naming a law school after him. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shittiest-universities/1007264/33 "2024-09-18T01:52:54Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > I’m unconvinced by this set of rankings. I don’t know many of the schools on it, but I’m reasonably familiar with Alcorn State. It’s an HBCU in the Mississippi Delta! They take students who come in with significant educational deficits because that is their mission, so _of course_ they have low graduation rates. And many of these students want or need to stay in the (very low-income) region where they grew up after they graduate, hence lower earnings after graduation. Yeah, the OP’s linked source is merely [a one-dimensional assessment of the “quality” of an institution based solely on comparing its costs with its graduates’ subsequent earnings.](https://www.degreechoices.com/best-colleges/) > [@](#): > > Many ranking systems focus on assigning value to different schools based on a myriad of non-economic factors – student to teacher ratios, incoming student average test scores, endowment size, and peer reviews to name a few. Our ranking system is different because it is focused entirely on median economic output, or which schools and programs offer students a better chance of higher economic success. […] > > How do we calculate return on educational investment? > > We take median student earnings 10 years after the first year of studies. > We deduct the median net cost of the degree (after aid) from these earnings. > We deduct the earnings that the student likely would have had with just a high school diploma. […] > > We derive an economic score used to rank schools by combining the above payback model with comparative earning rates, or how much more or less students from each school earn against the average. [In short,](https://www.degreechoices.com/) > [@](#): > > When we rank colleges, we skip murky variables like reputation, emphasizing earnings and net costs instead. I mean, I’m totally not knocking this concept of an institutional “economic score” for prospective students whose sole or primary criterion for higher education is simply maximizing profitability. Many people only want or need a college degree to allow them to earn the most money possible while costing them as little as possible in tuition and fees. Nothing wrong with that. But to equate this criterion with a university being “good” or “bad” or “better” or “worse” in any broader sense is simply marketing bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shittiest-universities/1007264/34 "2024-09-20T18:38:38Z")
This is clearly an AI-written or AI-guided article that’s popular in search results these days. It takes forever to get to the point and uses some very repetitive language. It just dredged some list of graduation rates and “economic scores” to generate it, and it’s only as comprehensive as the source data, which may not poll every university anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shittiest-universities/1007264/35 "2024-12-19T06:36:03Z")
Notre Dame ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shittiest-universities/1007264/36 "2024-12-19T06:37:19Z")
Then there are fighting words! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shittiest-universities/1007264.md?page=1)