# Shock value lesbians **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 30, 2002, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shock-value-lesbians/126298 "2002-08-30T14:33:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Quonk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ed655f/32.png) [@Quonk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quonk)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shock-value-lesbians/126298/21 "2002-08-31T05:01:25Z")
> [@](#): > > They do??? When did this start? > > I’m 41, and I know that any little boys who went around hugging or holding hands would have gotten beaten up or ridiculed (actually, BOTH) in my old neighborhood. Long before we even knew what a sissy was, we’d have scoffed at such sissy behavior. > > LONG before puberty, the boys I knew no longer hugged anyone except their Moms (but only when they were sure nobody else was watching), and no longer wanted to hold hands with ANYONE. Oh, I remember that stuff all the time in grade school. Guys holding hands, guys sharing beds at sleepovers. It stopped in middle school, which is when kids start to feel “old”, I think. Maybe it’s the age difference (I’m 17), or maybe it’s a regional thing. ---
**Author:** ![Rhapsody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9de0a6/32.png) [@Rhapsody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhapsody)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shock-value-lesbians/126298/22 "2002-08-31T05:03:44Z")
I think one major reason is that homosexual sex between men is almost always highly suggestive of dominance of one over the other. Not many people are comfortable either witnessing this “dominance play” or participating in it for that matter especially in the role of the “dominated”, at least not in public. I think that may have a lot to do with my own distaste for male homosexuality as opposed to female. Either though I feel is wrong when exclusively homosexual. I think there is likely a bit of bisexuality in all of us and while men in the US do not show affection very often or well for each other it isnt necessarily the same throughout the rest of the world. I have always felt though that “true” homosexuality is a deviation or illness that suggests other issues. ---
**Author:** ![owlofcreamcheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@owlofcreamcheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlofcreamcheese)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shock-value-lesbians/126298/23 "2002-08-31T05:21:51Z")
look in japan… look at gacket… thats where all the shock value gay men live. look at any j-pop band ---
**Author:** ![BoBettie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shock-value-lesbians/126298/24 "2002-08-31T13:49:49Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t know any guys who will kiss other guys for my benefit Psst: when you find some, don’t wear 'em out, OK? Send 'em MY way. Awwwwww YEAH!!! Yum, yummy, yum. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shock-value-lesbians/126298/25 "2002-08-31T13:55:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > \*\*Are you burly and Vin Diesel-ish? \*\* Are you? ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shock-value-lesbians/126298/26 "2002-08-31T15:08:16Z")
no. Does that mean the deal is off? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shock-value-lesbians/126298/27 "2002-09-01T04:48:52Z")
Naw, I was just wondering. FTR, I suppose I could be described as “burly” (does “burly” mean “still needs to drop another 30 pounds”?) but I have almost all of my hair and I don’t have a Vinnish voice (although I have been known to do my Tallulah Bankhead impersonation and if you close your eyes…). But I have no shame and have been known on occasion to have sex in public places. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shock-value-lesbians/126298/28 "2002-09-01T17:39:43Z")
Well, there’s shock value and there’s shock value. It can depend upon the goal. Picture a 30 year old or so JC. His office building has a little cafe in the basement right across from the health club. He eats there every single day. One of the counter guys is openly gay. Not only openly gay but enjoys swishing and the occasional flame when speaking to everyone in sight. Guy sits down next to JC. Say hello. JC has seen him there before. Guy orders from swishing waiter. Waiter leaves. Guy next to JC complains about having to be served by a queer. JC shrugs, reads Washington Post. Guy continues to complain. Waiter has picked up on it. Begins moving from ‘swish’ mode to ‘torch’ mode. Gets close to breaking into song. JC gets ready to leave. Waves the counter guy over to settle the tab. Guy next to JC continues muttering. JC whispers, ‘hold on’ and plants a big wet one straight on the mouth of counter guy who goes with it and begins laughing. Watch guy next to JC sit there open mouthed and shocked. So…guy kisses guy for shock value. But not like how you meant, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Nightime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Nightime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightime)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shock-value-lesbians/126298/29 "2002-09-01T22:37:03Z")
All the way up until 7th grade I would I would share a bed with my best friend when I slept at his house and we would have no problem with hugging. I think the reason men are uncomfortable with touching, hugging, etc. is because our culture is filled with messages about the evil things men have done, and how you should be suspicious of them, and what they are really thinking about (when it is actually not at all what men think about), and overall men are left with a terribly distorted view of themselves and other men, and of course they are uncomfortable, and suspicious of even their own motives. It’s really sad, actually. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shock-value-lesbians/126298/30 "2002-09-02T01:44:48Z")
I can recall one dopefest where a guy and I kissed in very plain view. There was definite mutual interest, but there’s also the fact that there were people who liked watching that (of whom I am one, whether boy on boy or girl on girl). I don’t think that’s shock value either, but then I don’t need shock value to kiss a guy;) ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shock-value-lesbians/126298/31 "2002-09-02T04:33:09Z")
I think it’s mostly because, as **jmpride62** says, it’s dangerous in many, many places. I’ve been tempted to kiss a guy for shock value before (and for other reasons - he was cute), and I’ve even had a girl try to convince me and another man to kiss. But I never have. If I ever did something like that publicly I’d lose all or most of my friends, get unwanted attention of all shapes and sizes, and quite likely get physically hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shock-value-lesbians/126298/32 "2002-09-02T20:03:22Z")
This behavior kind of irritates me, because I saw it happen when I was in High School. Personally, I think it was solely for attention, as in my High School as well as some others Lesbianism seemed to be somewhat of a fad. It bothered me because of the level of insincerity of it- none of the girls who did this behavior were lesbian themselves, and were probably making things worse for the students who really were lesbian. And personally I think culture defines a person’s lifestyle, not sexual preference. I knew enough gay people who weren’t flamboyant or stereotypical- these people probably couldn’t set off anybody’s gaydar. ---
**Author:** ![QueenAl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/d26b3c/32.png) [@QueenAl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QueenAl)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2002, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shock-value-lesbians/126298/33 "2002-09-03T17:59:39Z")
It depends whether these women really are kissing each other for ‘shock value’ or whether they simply want to kiss each other. I know there is the occasional woman who will kiss her friend to tease a man, but most women kissing women do it because they want to! My gf and I are very demonstrative in public and it’s certainly not for any man’s sake (and if we see a man watching we move away from each other). Women in relationships are more tactile than men in relationships, so you’d be more likely to see a lesbian couple kissing/cuddling in public than a gay male couple. That could explain why you see less ‘shock value gay guys’ - the lesbians aren’t really out for the shock value either, they’re just expressing their natural affection, which men tend not to express in that way as often. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2002, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shock-value-lesbians/126298/34 "2002-09-03T19:18:03Z")
**QueenAl** -we’re talking about people who may not even be gay. In other words, they’re just doing it so people will think, “oh, how sexy/gross/weird/whatever.” ---
**Author:** ![Judith\_Prietht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b19c9b/32.png) [@Judith\_Prietht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Judith_Prietht)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2002, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shock-value-lesbians/126298/35 "2002-09-03T19:53:27Z")
Like “Girls Gone Wild.” Hey, where are the “Guys Gone Wild”? ---
**Author:** ![QueenAl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/d26b3c/32.png) [@QueenAl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QueenAl)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2002, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shock-value-lesbians/126298/36 "2002-09-03T21:23:57Z")
**Guinastasia** - I know that, and I’m not trying to take offence where none is intended. But unless the women tell you specifically that they’re just doing it for effect (and you’re sure they’re telling the truth), you don’t _know_ if women kissing in public are doing it for guys or just for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2002, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shock-value-lesbians/126298/37 "2002-09-03T22:11:32Z")
Well, Queen Al, I’m actually speaking from experience, knowing at least three or four women (and a couple times in my tempetuous youth, ME) who would make out with another girl IN FRONT OF GUYS, because they said it would be “so hot”. And I am not, nor were any of those women, lesbians (to the best of my knowledge). I love to watch men kiss, but I don’t really know any straight men who would turn to their straight neighbor and give him a big sloppy kiss if I said “It would be so hot if you two made out”. That is my point. ---
**Author:** ![japatlgt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df705f/32.png) [@japatlgt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/japatlgt)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2002, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shock-value-lesbians/126298/38 "2002-09-03T22:40:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AHunter3 \* > \*\* > > Athens GA, circa early 1980’s – trendyville, everyone looking at every garage band as the next B-52s or REM, and yes it was an “in thing” for males to be of ambiguous sexuality. Straight guys were definitely doing double-entendres about wanting to be done by guys or finding this or that guy cute. Most of it was verbal and/or body-language stuff, gestures, etc., as opposed to public kissing and groping. \*\* BULLSHIT! ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2002, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shock-value-lesbians/126298/39 "2002-09-03T22:55:20Z")
Well played japatlgt! Certainly put Ahunter in his place! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Tenebras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@Tenebras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenebras)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2002, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shock-value-lesbians/126298/40 "2002-09-04T08:24:25Z")
Yo, Jon boy, help me out here: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonathan Chance \* (As edited, by **Tenebras** for clarification. No words in mouth here…) > > Picture a 30 year old or so J **esus** C **hrist**. His office building has a little cafe in the basement right across from the health club. He eats there every single day. > > One of the counter guys is openly gay. Not only openly gay but enjoys swishing and the occasional flame when speaking to everyone in sight. > > Guy sits down next to J **ubilant** C **hihuahua**. Say hello. J **ason’s** C **hainsaw** has seen him there before. Guy orders from swishing waiter. Waiter leaves. Guy next to J **alepeno** C **hiles** complains about having to be served by a queer. J **onesin’** C **arouser** shrugs, reads Washington Post. > > Guy continues to complain. Waiter has picked up on it. Begins moving from ‘swish’ mode to ‘torch’ mode. Gets close to breaking into song. > > J **ealous** C **retin** gets ready to leave. Waves the counter guy over to settle the tab. Guy next to J **ersey** C **ow** continues muttering. J **herk** C **hicken** whispers, ‘hold on’ and plants a big wet one straight on the mouth of counter guy who goes with it and begins laughing. > > Watch guy next to J **umbled** C **hirograph** sit there open mouthed and shocked. > > So…guy kisses guy for shock value. But not like how you meant, I think. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shock-value-lesbians/126298.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shock-value-lesbians/126298.md?page=3)