# SHOCKING News About Polycarp and Babylon 5 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 20, 2003, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shocking-news-about-polycarp-and-babylon-5/169904 "2003-04-20T19:53:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shocking-news-about-polycarp-and-babylon-5/169904/41 "2003-04-21T22:55:51Z")
I feel the story of B5 was fantastic, but the production values were very low. When it was first on, I saw an episode here and there, but the quality of the actors and sets were distracting to me and I never got into it. Then when TBS had all the episodes back to back, I watched from the beginning and got hooked. I think it’s like watching a soap opera. If you’re not into the story, the bad lighting and bad actors ruin it. But if you’re into the story, you don’t notice the rough edges. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shocking-news-about-polycarp-and-babylon-5/169904/42 "2003-04-21T23:04:45Z")
First, it’s Khazad-Dum, not Khaza Dum! Sheesh, at least get the Master right! My daughter kept insisting I should watch B5. When it first came on I watched a couple of episodes and thought, “Ho-hum.” Dropped it. Ignored it. Then a couple years ago my evil daughter convinced her brother to start watching it, and I was coming home from work at just the time it was on, so we started watching it every night as we ate dinner. I think it took about 3 episodes to get me truly and thoroughly hooked. This was early Season 2. (The fact that I think Bruce Boxleitner is about the most handsome man to grace a TV screen in the past ten years had _nothing_ to do with it, of course.) It got so bad that as the height of Season 4 arrived, when I remember turning to my son and saying, “Omigod, they just solved that MAJOR plot point – but they’ve still got X to go!!!”, we were in the throes of moving – and staying in a motel for ten days with NO SCI-FI CHANNEL! ACK! GACK! MAJOR WITHDRAWAL THREAT! Fortunately, I found a kind friend with a VCR to tape it and went over to her house, at first every other day and then every day, to get the tapes. I honestly can’t remember EVER being that hooked on a show before. (My friend thought I was crazy, but fortunately she understands obsession!) I still think one of my favorite moments is when Vir tells Morden what his future hope for him is…and that little hand wave he does. Sick! Wonderful! Great characters, terrific writing, amazing story arc – it has it all! ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2003, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shocking-news-about-polycarp-and-babylon-5/169904/43 "2003-04-22T02:02:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alessan \* > \*\*4. No kids. I can think of only two episodes which featured children in speaking parts, in in both cases they were dead by the end of the episode. Kids have no business appearing in science fiction. > \*\* So what, there aren’t any kids in the future? Are people spawned fullY grown from cloning tanks? Just because Star Trek children tend to be badly written and acted doesn’t mean there should be no children in science fiction. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2003, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shocking-news-about-polycarp-and-babylon-5/169904/44 "2003-04-22T02:07:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by butrscotch \* > **First, it’s Khazad-Dum, not Khaza Dum! Sheesh, at least get the Master right!** Irrelevant to _me,_ since I only “read” Lord of the Rings by playing the books-on-tape in my car during my commute. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2003, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shocking-news-about-polycarp-and-babylon-5/169904/45 "2003-04-22T02:41:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by whiterabbit \* > \*\*You MUST watch B5! I’d start near the end of the first season. Poly, hon, do NOT watch the pilot first. It sucks. > \*\* I agree and disagree. DO watch the pilot first, but realize that it’s very, very, VERY flawed. (the Asian first officer CANNOT act. At all. It’s actually embarrassing to watch her) But the doctor’s good (far better than the boring regular guy they get for the first season.) And it sets things up in an important way (the arrival of you-know-who). Plus the fact that \< name not mentioned \> vanishes after seeing inside you-know-who’s you-know-what gives you the first clue (mentioned in an early episode) that everything’s not exactly kosher. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2003, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shocking-news-about-polycarp-and-babylon-5/169904/46 "2003-04-22T03:58:24Z")
Okay, when **CJ** and **Fenris** tell me I have to watch it with that Spider Robinsonish “heh, I can addict someone else” glint in their evil little eyes, when **Mars Horizon** drags out quotes he knows are going to tantalize me, when **CJ** (on the phone) and **Alessan** hint about throwaway allusions to other SF – when two dozen Dopers nearly unanimously tell me that it’s their cup of tea for good SF TV … I guess I know what I’m doing in the near future! 🙂 Thank you one and all. But **CJ** , about that thread title… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2003, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shocking-news-about-polycarp-and-babylon-5/169904/47 "2003-04-22T04:11:40Z")
Dudes, you’re all a bunch of geeks. 😉 ::_Skippy_ shuffles off to go pop in a Buffy DVD.:: ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2003, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shocking-news-about-polycarp-and-babylon-5/169904/48 "2003-04-22T04:23:29Z")
Sorry, CJ. I’m not interested in watching anything set in Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2003, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shocking-news-about-polycarp-and-babylon-5/169904/49 "2003-04-22T07:26:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > \*\*Plus the fact that \< name not mentioned \> vanishes after seeing inside you-know-who’s you-know-what gives you the first clue (mentioned in an early episode) that everything’s not exactly kosher. \*\* **Fenris** , if that pun was intentional… **sturmhauke** - there’s no logical reason behind it; it’s merely experience talking. Too many years of Wesely, Anakin and a myrid oftheir literary cousins made me realize that most SF writers just can’t handle kids, not without a adding a level of cutsiness that’s fatal to a genre struggling for respectability in the first place. Science fiction is _not_ “kid’s stuff”, and I don’t want anyone thinking it is. Besides, most SF writers aren’t cruel enough to hurt children, so having them there makes their universe a much safer - and thus much more boring - place. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2003, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shocking-news-about-polycarp-and-babylon-5/169904/50 "2003-04-22T11:33:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alessan \* > \*\ ***Fenris** , if that pun was intentional… > \*\* I got a theory about who You-Know-Who really is and I made a pun based on that. PLEASE DON’T TELL ME IF I’M RIGHT OR WRONG! NO SPOILERS! The only correct answer is “Huh. How 'bout that.” or “I see.” I don’t want to know if I’m right or not! [spoiler] If Morden is a devil, Kosh is an angel. There’s that whole speech that the doctor makes at the end of the pilot about how his life was transformed just from seeing what Kosh looked like. And I thought angel = kosher would be funny[/spoiler] Again, please. No spoilers. Actually one. Do we ever see Captain Sinclair again? Does he ever return for an episode or for several? Yes or No please. \*\* > [@](#): > > most SF writers just can’t handle kids, not without a adding a level of cutsiness that’s fatal to a genre struggling for respectability in the first place.\*\* Three exceptions off the top of my head: Robert Heinlein David Gerrold Orson Scott Card. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2003, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shocking-news-about-polycarp-and-babylon-5/169904/51 "2003-04-22T11:59:46Z")
Yes, Sinclair shows up in a couple of episodes after season 1. Brian ---
**Author:** ![Deptford](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Deptford](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deptford)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2003, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shocking-news-about-polycarp-and-babylon-5/169904/52 "2003-04-22T12:01:51Z")
Yes, we do see Sinclair again and all the mysterious loose ends about his past from season1 is not forgotten and are resolved superbly. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2003, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shocking-news-about-polycarp-and-babylon-5/169904/53 "2003-04-22T12:26:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Do we ever see Captain Sinclair again? Does he ever return for an episode or for several? > > Yes or No please. Heh heh. Mmmm… yep, and sorta. Which reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from B5, involving a character named Zathros, who is attempting some sort of repair… ZATHROS (responding to a reminder that “time is running out”): Cannot run out of _time_… There is infinite time! _You_ are finite. _Zathros_ is finite. _This_… \ is wrong tool. \ No… no… \ Never use this. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2003, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shocking-news-about-polycarp-and-babylon-5/169904/54 "2003-04-22T12:27:05Z")
Actually, **Fenris** I was just refering to your use of the word **kosh** er. Oh: [sm]“Huh. How 'bout that.” [/sm] As for the three writers you mentioned: I’m not familiar with one of them; I don’t really like any of Heinlein’s characters (the man had good ideas, good style, and that’s about that); and Card’s kids aren’t really children. I mean, they’re small, and they’re young… but they’re not exactly children. Not really. ---
**Author:** ![NE\_Texan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e99b99/32.png) [@NE\_Texan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NE_Texan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2003, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shocking-news-about-polycarp-and-babylon-5/169904/55 "2003-04-22T18:38:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Do we ever see Captain Sinclair again? Does he ever return for an episode or for several? Yes, he returns to resolve some of his plot threads, in a way that affects the larger story. Another big fan of Babylon 5 here. It’s not perfect - it has it’s own lousy moments (I never cared much for the fight plot in TKO, for instance). However, it seems to me that this show made a major effort to get a lot of things right, consistent, and fit together in a larger sense. Overall, it succeeds more than it fails, and has some really stellar bits of writing here and there. ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2003, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shocking-news-about-polycarp-and-babylon-5/169904/56 "2003-04-22T19:14:40Z")
There are a few stinker episodes. No show lacks at least a few of those. But when B5 is good it’s REALLY REALLY DAMN GOOD. Had I watched the pilot first I don’t think I’d have given the rest of the show a chance. (Perish the thought!!!) Going back and watching it after I knew the rest of the story was interesting in a “well, I gotta see this if I want to call myself a fan” way but honestly, it hurt. Especially that first officer. Ouch. I really don’t think it’s necessary to see first; I seem to remember there being a few flashbacks to key events in the series later on when you NEED to know something about what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2003, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shocking-news-about-polycarp-and-babylon-5/169904/57 "2003-04-22T22:01:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alessan \* > \*\*As for the three writers you mentioned: I’m not familiar with one of them; I don’t really like any of Heinlein’s characters (the man had good ideas, good style, and that’s about that \*\* Have you tried his juveniles? They were written for and about a 14-17 year old audience. Try **Have Spacesuit, Will Travel** or **Tunnel in the Sky** to get a feel for what Heinlein could do with kids. (If you have, then nevermind. 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2003, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shocking-news-about-polycarp-and-babylon-5/169904/58 "2003-04-22T22:27:05Z")
I am just expecting JMS to come in here and start grabbin people by the scruff of their necks,lol. Season five is probably the one season that came off the worst ,because of the network screwing with are they gonna pick it up , or not. Forced the producers to squash everything into season four. Some impressions though just from reading the previous posts. I think that my Trek watching is limited to TOS , or the next generation , of seven seasons I believe ,I have only watched one and a half and maybe ten of DS9 and a couple of voyager ,and so far none of that new series. So while Star Trek what ever flavor had some moving and good eps , its just that I have never seen them. One poster put the finger on the button , without even realizing why I liked it , or at least one of the reasons and that being that all of the characters are mid 30’s and older. There is no magic pill that eliminates alcoholism , there is no pill that eliminates drug abuse. People still wear glasses and greed and corruption are still the pillars of human character. While most of the ladies were reasonably attractive , there was no super models in space . Ivanova I loved specifically for her attitude , not because she was any better looking than say 2 of 46 , er seven of nine , sorry ,lol. Marcus had to steal the show , with his english wit. I am sure everyone remembers his ahem , marriage lol. Zathras ,you just wanted to slap upside the head , when you finished laughing at what he was saying. G’kar , gotta love where he leaves that fake eye . Declan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shocking-news-about-polycarp-and-babylon-5/169904.md?page=2)