# Shodan crosses the line **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 28, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803 "2014-08-28T21:50:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/41 "2014-08-29T11:56:03Z")
Crossing the line? What line? This is Shodan’s MO. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/42 "2014-08-29T11:56:54Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > That’s hardly praise worthy. Every idiot gets something right now and then. Your post is your cite. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/43 "2014-08-29T12:13:35Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > If raising the maximum tax on dividends to 30% is good, why not 90%? 900%? Shame on you, that’s worser than raping 8-year-old dogs … ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/44 "2014-08-29T12:15:28Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Because, from time to time, he writes something that it is actually insightful. > [@Shodan](#): > > That’s nice, dear. But not this time. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/45 "2014-08-29T12:30:03Z")
Look, **BG** , your schtick is confident predictions of coming disaster for the Republicans, complaining that the Socialist Tea-Snorting Party can’t get into Congress despite their almost fourteen votes, and reposting huge swathes of stuff from _The Atlantic_ giving 57 varieties of voting blocs with side notes on their sex lives and what cars they drive. But pompous indignation is _my_ schtick. So **back off!** :mad: Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/46 "2014-08-29T12:33:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The liberal blindness is stunning. Just…stunning. Eh, what do you know. You’re nothing but a **Shodan** with a tweed suit and a law degree! ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/47 "2014-08-29T12:59:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > But pompous indignation is _my_ schtick. At least you admit it. [sup]Snipping in Shodan’s post is mine[/sup] ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/48 "2014-08-29T13:19:18Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > luckily, I keep a supply of handi-wipes by the computer keyboard. Myself, I have hand lotion and Kleenex, but _chacun à son goût_. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/49 "2014-08-29T13:20:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The liberal blindness is stunning. Just…stunning. > > So the Republicans literally have no plans, eh? They just wait for Obama to say “Up,” and then they intone, “Down?” > > That’s your understanding of things, is it? OK then, what is _yours_? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/50 "2014-08-29T13:26:11Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Look, **BG** , your schtick is confident predictions of coming disaster for the Republicans, complaining that the Socialist Tea-Snorting Party can’t get into Congress despite their almost fourteen votes, and reposting huge swathes of stuff from _The Atlantic_ giving 57 varieties of voting blocs with side notes on their sex lives and what cars they drive. > > But pompous indignation is _my_ schtick. So **back off!** :mad: > > Regards, > Shodan Okay, this was at least a \*little \*witty. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/51 "2014-08-29T13:58:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think this is 99% accurate for Steve King, Bachmann, and the like, and they seem to be the driving force of Republican legislative philosophy right now. Even if I were to concede that the description is true for Bachmann and King, it’s absolutely not true that they are the driving force behind Republican legislative philosophy. This is the blindness I mean. This thread excoriates **Shodan** for a sweeping, over-the-top generalization – one that was undoubtedly posted to mock the parallel sweeping, over-the-top generalizations leveled against GOP leadership. And he’s pilloried because the default assumption is that you’d better be able to defend the literal accuracy of attacks against Democrats, and you’re arguing in bad faith if you fail to take context of remarks into account. But attacks against Republicans are fine, and context is unimportant, and it’s all ok, because in the end, Democrats are _correct_, and Republicans aren’t. **Yogsooth** is, I think, about the only debater here who has been willing to say that the above is absolutely correct: he cheerfully assigns different standards of proof and different goal post locations to R and D politicians and arguments, because Republicans are simply wrong and must be stopped. The rest of you do it, and don’t admit it. Look what you just did: there are over 200 Republican Congresspeople; nearly half the Senate belongs to the GOP. The GOP will control both chambers after the election this year. That will mean that voters in every single congressional district and state that elects a Republican have listened to a Democrat make his case for governance, and they will have still flipped the lever for the Republican. And yet you’re perfectly comfortable in saying that there’s no Republican plan apart from saying “Cold,” if Obama says “Hot?” You can’t seriously acknowledge the hyperbole? ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/52 "2014-08-29T14:13:42Z")
> [@Eutychus](#): > > But not this time. Wasn’t really expecting it to be. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/53 "2014-08-29T14:15:09Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Look what you just did: there are over 200 Republican Congresspeople; nearly half the Senate belongs to the GOP. The GOP will control both chambers after the election this year. That will mean that voters in every single congressional district and state that elects a Republican have listened to a Democrat make his case for governance, and they will have still flipped the lever for the Republican. > > And yet you’re perfectly comfortable in saying that there’s no Republican plan apart from saying “Cold,” if Obama says “Hot?” > > You can’t seriously acknowledge the hyperbole? No, that just proves that Rovian tactics are unfortunately successful. It’s obvious to any thinking person that the Republicans have no plan other than opposing Obama, along with a few dog whistles hinting at Obama’s skin color. But most people are not thinking people, and many are easily led astray by sinister propaganda paid for by right-wing PACs and ultimately controlled by the Koch Brothers. That’s why it’s important that we at the SDMB, whose mission is to Fight Ignorance, redouble our efforts to fight this particular ignorance along with all other forms of ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/54 "2014-08-29T14:36:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And yet you’re perfectly comfortable in saying that there’s no Republican plan apart from saying “Cold,” if Obama says “Hot?” > > You can’t seriously acknowledge the hyperbole? Are you comfortable in saying there \*is \*a Republican plan beyond oppositionism? How about a hint or two, then? :dubious: Or you could simply end your posts “Regards, Bricker” and save some time. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/55 "2014-08-29T14:44:41Z")
**Bricker** , it’s very hard for me to believe that you truly think the GOP and Democrats are equal in terms of over-the-top partisan behavior. And this is not because I think the Democrats are right—actually I have little love for the Democratic party, and think they’re scarcely right about anything—but because the behavior of the GOP has been appalling, exhibiting far worse partisanship, obstructionism, and mendacity than anything I’ve witnessed in my lifetime. Unless you’re just so partisan that you have to see your team win at all costs, I simply don’t see how any intelligent person could be entirely happy with the current GOP. The former registered Republican in me is truly disgusted by them. (My current state doesn’t require party registration, which I approve of, because I wouldn’t be happy associating too directly with either party.) Again, this is not because I think the Democrats are right and I want them to win at all costs. Far from it! Either side will be in ascendancy from time to time; _that_ is inevitable, and in the long run a good thing. Therefore it is vital for neither side to treat the other as enemies who must be defeated at all costs, but rather to find a way to work together to accomplish meaningful goals in the interests of the nation as a whole. Yes, this is idealistic. Right now the GOP are objectively much farther from that ideal than the Democrats are. But yes, **Shodan** in the case cited by the OP did not do anything especially Pit worthy: just the usual brainless partisan silliness, and as noted, seen on both sides. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/56 "2014-08-29T14:49:02Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > **Bricker** , it’s very hard for me to believe that you truly think the GOP and Democrats are equal in terms of over-the-top partisan behavior. And this is not because I think the Democrats are right—actually I have little love for the Democratic party, and think they’re scarcely right about anything—but because the behavior of the GOP has been appalling, exhibiting far worse partisanship, obstructionism, and mendacity than anything I’ve witnessed in my lifetime. > > Unless you’re just so partisan that you have to see your team win at all costs, I simply don’t see how any intelligent person could be entirely happy with the current GOP. The former registered Republican in me is truly disgusted by them. (My current state doesn’t require party registration, which I approve of, because I wouldn’t be happy associating too directly with either party.) > > Again, this is not because I think the Democrats are right and I want them to win at all costs. Far from it! Either side will be in ascendancy from time to time; _that_ is inevitable, and in the long run a good thing. Therefore it is vital for neither side to treat the other as enemies who must be defeated at all costs, but rather to find a way to work together to accomplish meaningful goals in the interests of the nation as a whole. Yes, this is idealistic. Right now the GOP are objectively much farther from that ideal than the Democrats are. > > But yes, **Shodan** in the case cited by the OP did not do anything especially Pit worthy: just the usual brainless partisan silliness, and as noted, seen on both sides. Fallacy of the Excluded Middle. I’m not “entirely happy” with the Republicans. And I agree they have, since about 2008, exceeded the Democrats’ best attempts at over-the-top partisan behavior. But that’s not nearly the same as the claim that I’m perfectly satisfied, or that they have no plans at all apart from obstructionism. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/57 "2014-08-29T14:49:15Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It’s obvious to any thinking person that the Republicans have no plan other than opposing Obama, along with a few dog whistles hinting at Obama’s skin color. But most people are not thinking people, and many are easily led astray by sinister propaganda paid for by right-wing PACs and ultimately controlled by the Koch Brothers. You forgot voter ID, feeding the poor to [vicious dogs](http://s1197.photobucket.com/user/ElbowsMcFadden/media/0118132233_zps8a8768f0.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0#/user/ElbowsMcFadden/media/0118132233_zps8a8768f0.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0&_suid=1409323627249047378965497204495), hunting immigrants for sport, and backgammon. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/58 "2014-08-29T14:59:44Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I thought it was a play on the criticism that some GOP operatives received when they said that they would do “anything” or some such language to see that Obama wasn’t reelected. Folks on your side used that language to mean that they would tank the country or do any number of illegal things. Our side pointed out that it was normal language and not meant to be taken to its literal extreme. > > Shodan was using Reid’s words and making the same accusation, but was doing so to highly the absurdity of your side’s former position. That’s exactly how I read it. There was a rather tiresome repetition of the McConnell line, always parsed in a hyper-literal manner, and that was the only way some people said it could be interpreted. And, true to form, in this thread there is the normal SDMB outrage that we can’t all see why it’s different here. Because Reid is _right!_ And the Republicans are _wrong!_ Only Democratic quotes need to be considered in context. Because Republicans are evil obstructionists who want to see the poor suffer and the country go up in flames. If they take the Senate, that can only mean that their lies have taken root! The horror! This place is pretty predictable. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/59 "2014-08-29T15:02:40Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I am not a fan of partisan gotchas, recognize that **Shodan** is one of the most notorious sociopolitical lepers in Board history (I feel positively unclean even typing his username\*), and the fundraising letter he’s bringing up is old news. But he’s essentially correct. > > It’s pretty embarrassing for a Democratic leader to suggest that preserving the status of his fellow party members should be the country’s number one priority. it reflects bombast and a sense of self-importance roughly equivalent to what Mitch McConnell displayed in trying to make Obama’s re-election defeat his party’s top priority. > > \*luckily, I keep a supply of handi-wipes by the computer keyboard. I agree. Republicans engage in counter-productive partisanship a lot more than Democrats do, but that doesn’t justify either side doing it. Finding differences between Reid’s and McConnell’s statements is valid, but ultimately pointless: political parties, like all large organizations, become more concerned with self-preservation than any other goal. Reid’s statement, no what context or caveats may be, reflects the party’s concern for itself. That is worthy of criticism, no matter how much worse the other side is. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/60 "2014-08-29T15:19:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Even if I were to concede that the description is true for Bachmann and King Do you disagree? > [@](#): > > , it’s absolutely not true that they are the driving force behind Republican legislative philosophy. Then we disagree. Who/what do you think is the driving philosophy these days? > [@](#): > > But attacks against Republicans are fine, and context is unimportant, and it’s all ok, because in the end, Democrats are _correct_, and Republicans aren’t. Who says the context is unimportant? The context is why McConnel’s statement is so heavily criticized, and Reid’s is not. > [@](#): > > Look what you just did: there are over 200 Republican Congresspeople; nearly half the Senate belongs to the GOP. The GOP will control both chambers after the election this year. We’ll see… but I like your confidence! > [@](#): > > That will mean that voters in every single congressional district and state that elects a Republican have listened to a Democrat make his case for governance, and they will have still flipped the lever for the Republican. This doesn’t counteract my point. > [@](#): > > And yet you’re perfectly comfortable in saying that there’s no Republican plan apart from saying “Cold,” if Obama says “Hot?” I didn’t say that. Some Republicans have plans. But I hold that the driving Republican governing philosophy, right now, is the childish one of King, Bachmann, and the like. They are by far the most influential group. And this is at least partly due to the large portion of the Republican base whose highest priority is thwarting Obama. > [@](#): > > You can’t seriously acknowledge the hyperbole? Sure, there’s hyperbole. I use it too. Maybe it’s more like 98%. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803.md?page=4)