# Shodan crosses the line **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 28, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803 "2014-08-28T21:50:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/161 "2014-08-30T15:16:54Z")
That’s just partisan twaddle. The terms “campaign of obstruction” and “repeatedly block” are loaded terms. When one party gains the White House, is the other side expected just to roll over and help them enact their agenda? Did the Dems do this when Bush was elected? Of course not. The opposition always gathers because they truly believe that the occupant in the White House will do things that are bad for the country. They will meet and come up with plans to win over the American people to show that their side is right and that the President’s proposals are wrong or dangerous. This is nothing new. The article takes a further shot by mentioning that they met at an expensive restaurant, somewhat implying that they should go to Burger King instead. Where do rich people go to eat? Oh yeah, expensive restaurants. The whole article is a slam piece. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/162 "2014-08-30T15:23:56Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Of course not. The opposition always gathers because they truly believe that the occupant in the White House will do things that are bad for the country. They will meet and come up with plans to win over the American people to show that their side is right and that the President’s proposals are wrong or dangerous. This is nothing new. > > . As far as I can tell, their only “plan” was to oppose everything, even those things they really had no objection to. ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/163 "2014-08-30T16:20:06Z")
It is reported that President Obama is studying all options on how to deal with Shodan’s line-crossing but _has_ ruled out boots on the ground. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/164 "2014-08-30T17:05:24Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > As far as I can tell, their only “plan” was to oppose everything, even those things they really had no objection to. What is something the GOP opposed that they “really had no objection to”? ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/165 "2014-08-30T17:13:15Z")
People have short memories. I remember congress during Bush’s second term being obstructionist and ineffective just like it is now. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/166 "2014-08-30T17:38:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What this place also has, though, is a liberal supermajority. That’s the first time you’ve ever described a liberal, much less a majority of 'em, as super. And I think you are mistaken about jumping on ideas and posts they don’t like. Supposed liberals on this board will jump on liberal ideas and liberal reasoning with savage cruelty and idiocy, provided it is an idea that they reject to begin with. You call it hypocrisy, we call it maize…er confirmation bias and pig-headedness. > [@jtgain](#): > > What is something the GOP opposed that they “really had no objection to”? The ACA. It was a Republican proposal back when Clinton proposed universal health care, then became Romneycare in Massachusetts and when Obama proposed it and got it through Congress it became the most evil thing ever. But, I’m sure we can hand wave that one away by a vote in one Chamber of Congress, or 50 such votes or whatever the number is up to now. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/167 "2014-08-30T17:53:01Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > That’s just partisan twaddle. The terms “campaign of obstruction” and “repeatedly block” are loaded terms. When one party gains the White House, is the other side expected just to roll over and help them enact their agenda? Did the Dems do this when Bush was elected? > > Of course not. The opposition always gathers because they truly believe that the occupant in the White House will do things that are bad for the country. They will meet and come up with plans to win over the American people to show that their side is right and that the President’s proposals are wrong or dangerous. This is nothing new. “Repeatedly block”: > **[House Takes 50th Vote to Change 'Obamacare'](https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2014/03/not-again-house-gop-takes-50th-vote-to-change-obamacare/)** > > Republicans continue to target the health care law. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/168 "2014-08-30T18:39:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. Then you’re either far more stupid than I would have ever though or like Shodan you really do recognize that there is a fundamental difference and you just don’t care. Either way it makes me honestly sad. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/169 "2014-08-30T19:59:50Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > What is something the GOP opposed that they “really had no objection to”? [How about nominees to courts?](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/31/opinion/the-senates-discourtesy-to-judges.html?_r=0) Senator Burr blocked the appointment of a federal judge that he himself recommended for the job in 2009. There are nine judgeships open in Texas, but the state’s two Republican senators refuse to work with the White House on any nominees. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/170 "2014-08-30T21:39:57Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Then you’re either far more stupid than I would have ever though or like Shodan you really do recognize that there is a fundamental difference and you just don’t care. > > Either way it makes me honestly sad. And you declare that you’re right, because, well, you’re right, and those that disagree with you are wrong. And it doesn’t even make me sad, because frankly I always knew you were a fucking moron. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/171 "2014-08-30T21:43:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And you declare that you’re right, because, well, you’re right, and those that disagree with you are wrong. > > And it doesn’t even make me sad, because frankly I always knew you were a fucking moron. Wow, someone touched a nerve. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/172 "2014-08-30T22:00:12Z")
What the hell is a “liberal”, anyway? I’m a liberal, **BG** is a liberal, Obama is a liberal, hence, we are all approximately the same? The label I apply to myself is radical, relying on the somewhat outdated definition as being someone who believes that fundamental change (“at the root”) is what is required. Whereas a liberal believes that you can progressively tinker with a diesel powered people crushing machine until finally you arrive at a solar-powered rainbow extruder. Not that I have anything _against_ liberals, mind! But where’s the line, and has it moved over time? I haven’t much changed my political opinions over the years, but my opinions that used to be beyond the pale have become more or less centralized. And when I first started on this long, strange trip I never even considered something as out of bounds as gay marriage. I most likely would have said “Sure, why not?” but never would have thought to live to see it. So, who are these liberals, and what do they think, outside of not thinking like **Bricker**? Bob Dole is a conservative, Ted Cruz is a reactionary, I sure don’t think _they_ are the same! ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/173 "2014-08-30T22:22:20Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Wow, someone touched a nerve. Yeah, no kidding. So much for the level headed view of Bricker. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/174 "2014-08-30T22:28:09Z")
Quaint old radical notions of change…how charming! I think we are coming up on one of those moments that happen from time to time in history. That moment in which the topmost layer of society needs to be forcibly reminded that they can be dragged from their mansions and torn to pieces by those below. They forget this lesson, you see, and it must be retaught. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/175 "2014-08-30T22:37:50Z")
> [@](#): > > MaxTheVool > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by Bricker View Post > > the cumulative effect is that a GOP leader says the number one priority is to defeat Obama, and people generally agree that means we can infer he intends to convey his intent is to let the country burn as long as Obama is defeated. And at the same time, when a Democratic leader says the most important thing is to ensure a Democratic majority, he is speaking in context and doesn’t mean literally the single most important thing. > > Do you think there’s a meaningful difference in context between the two statements? The context of the statement by Reid now and McConnell then is, in my view, just an opinion, the same statement in the same context. By the opposing heads of the party in the US Senate. There is a difference in implementation. McConnell fully intends to carry through such statements into practice and has a long history of doing exactly that and setting records since 2009 in blocking, filibustering and shutting down budgets, defaults, etc. in not going along with the majority party. Reid and other Democrats, when in the minority leadership position, will oppose some measures and nominees supported by the majority, but the effort is a small fraction of such measures and nominees. If effectiveness is to be measured by the cohesiveness of the minority, McConnell is far better at it than any minority leader in history. I think that the policy difference is that when Democrats are in a minority, they take their duty to keep the country running more seriously than they do their obligation to stop measures that they think will hurt the country. Republicans do not acknowledge that their measures could possibly hurt anyone that matters and will benefit everyone that matters. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/176 "2014-08-30T22:39:50Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Quaint old radical notions of change…how charming! I think we are coming up on one of those moments that happen from time to time in history. That moment in which the topmost layer of society needs to be forcibly reminded that they can be dragged from their mansions and torn to pieces by those below. They forget this lesson, you see, and it must be retaught. That is disgusting to me as a liberal. My prescription for our country’s ills is a massive, continuous and never ending voter registration effort and then get out the vote effort. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/177 "2014-08-30T22:41:41Z")
At least some of the “our highest priority is to make Obama a one-term President” proclamations came _after_ a general election, not before. To me there’s a big difference between what one says in the middle of a campaign, and what one says after an election, when the goal should be responsible government. There were so many nasty remarks like that by GOP figures, that it’s hard to find specific ones Googling. [This webpage mentions several nastinesses](http://politic365.com/2012/01/27/the-10-worst-moments-of-disrespect-towards-president-obama/) including a Dec 2010 (post-election) utterance by Mitch McConnell that “Our top political priority over the next two years should be to deny President Obama a second term.” If **Bricker** cannot see the difference between “over the next two years” and “during this campaign” then he really is more stupid than he seems. A challenge to Republiopaths: Can you identify nastiness directed against GWB by Governors or Congressmen comparable to the garbage referenced by the link above? ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/178 "2014-08-30T22:51:28Z")
The thing is, there are circumstances surrounding every statement. Screaming “I’ll Kill You!” while charging someone in a bar is quite different than a wife giggling “I’ll kill you!” when her husband jokes that he’s going to play golf on her birthday. But apparently in this case the circumstances just don’t matter, at least to some people. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/179 "2014-08-30T22:57:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And you declare that you’re right, because, well, you’re right, and those that disagree with you are wrong. > > And it doesn’t even make me sad, because frankly I always knew you were a fucking moron. I won’t try to get you to watch a Batman video this time - it’s a short political video that basically sums up my opinion of the Republican position: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/XdofmoYcJNE/hqdefault.jpg "Let me play you a sad Song on the World's smallest Violin") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdofmoYcJNE) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803/180 "2014-08-30T23:00:51Z")
Those damn liberals, with all their “facts” and all their “reasoning” and all their “morality” - it just isn’t _fair_! _(pout, stamp of little foot)_ Why can’t they just let me believe whatever the fuck I want to, relieving myself of any sense of obligation, without always challenging me so annoyingly? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-crosses-the-line/696803.md?page=10)