# Shodan, HurricaneDitka, and George Zimmerman: Three Racist Peas in a Racist Pod **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 6, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-hurricaneditka-and-george-zimmerman-three-racist-peas-in-a-racist-pod/825691 "2018-12-06T17:46:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-hurricaneditka-and-george-zimmerman-three-racist-peas-in-a-racist-pod/825691/61 "2018-12-07T16:59:28Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > Shodan is a piece of shit racist troll who is somehow still around because he’s one of the “good” conservatives around here (how shitty is that?). > > At the same time he regularly whines about moderator bias against conservatives. > > Ditka is Shodan’s less intelligent little brother. No, he and Ditka are around because they stay within the rules. Being a dishonest, amoral asshole is not in itself cause for banning as long as one observes the requirements of the forum in which one is posting, and both are scrupulous in doing so. Incidentally both posters are, outside of threads with any political content, capable of thoughtful and constructive comment (unlike certain other recently-booted right-wing posters who were idiotic across the board). > [@Babale](#): > > From the GD thread:Anyone know how to save a post? This one’s gonna come in REAL handy next time the cops shoot an unarmed black man at 50 feet and this asshole is defending them. It won’t matter. **Shodan** in particular is fond of the “As long as I can concoct a post-hoc rationalization for the shooting of yet another black man it’s all good” school of debate. Then he’ll ignore any counterarguments or questions while blatantly misinterpreting what other people have said and blaming them for it. But as I said, he does so in a way that stays within the rules so he hasn’t been banned for trolling yet. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-hurricaneditka-and-george-zimmerman-three-racist-peas-in-a-racist-pod/825691/62 "2018-12-07T17:00:19Z")
One more point in the “ **Shodan** is a racist” argument’s favor: In many threads on the subject, I’ve asked him point blank if he believes that black people are inherently inferior in intelligence, on average, due to genetics. He’s always refused to answer. Based on this (and his doth-protests in this thread), I think he actually is a bit fearful of being called a racist. Most racists (conscious or unconscious) are also at least a bit cowardly, in my experience, so this wouldn’t be out of the ordinary. And if you’re reading this, **Shodan** , you’re not too old to change. It’s not that unusual for an older white American guy to have some racist inclinations. Decent folks look within themselves to try and find flaws like this so they can fix them, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-hurricaneditka-and-george-zimmerman-three-racist-peas-in-a-racist-pod/825691/63 "2018-12-07T17:03:01Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > To respond to your actual point – there are trained professionals whose job it is to respond to reports of suspicious activity. They are called police officers. If you (or, more likely, some asswipe like George Zimmerman) decides to take the law into his own hands, and ends up getting killed, that sounds like a personal problem. If you end up killing an innocent, you should got in jail. That is correct. But self defense is a thing. So if you shoot someone who is beating you pretty good you might be doing the legal thing. The problem with Florida’s law is that it can lead to a bad set of circumstances if two or more hot heads encounter each other. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-hurricaneditka-and-george-zimmerman-three-racist-peas-in-a-racist-pod/825691/64 "2018-12-07T17:06:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > One more point in the “ **Shodan** is a racist” argument’s favor: In many threads on the subject, I’ve asked him point blank if he believes that black people are inherently inferior in intelligence, on average, due to genetics. He’s always refused to answer. Based on this (and his doth-protests in this thread), I think he actually is a bit fearful of being called a racist. Most racists (conscious or unconscious) are also at least a bit cowardly, in my experience, so this wouldn’t be out of the ordinary. > > And if you’re reading this, **Shodan** , you’re not too old to change. It’s not that unusual for an older white American guy to have some racist inclinations. Decent folks look within themselves to try and find flaws like this so they can fix them, IMO. You know how those threads go. They are pointless. All group based genetic threads on this board are pointless because even defining a group or a trait or how to measure a trait are impossible. And then you got to deal with the hijacks and whining. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-hurricaneditka-and-george-zimmerman-three-racist-peas-in-a-racist-pod/825691/65 "2018-12-07T17:13:59Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It’s funny but obviously not surprising you have that race based double standard on language. I don’t. If **Shodan** was a comedian doing a satirical bit on language and the absurdity of racism, then I’d evaluate it differently. Satirical comedy bits are different than serious assertions about the appropriate usage of hateful slurs. > [@](#): > > With regards to using ugly language? We are in a time where the hysterical Pavlovian response to certain words is so extreme you must be crazy to think I want to discuss something that requires maturity and nuance and honesty in the Pit. So you’re afraid? We’ve had decent discussions in the Pit before. But if you’re scared, then you don’t have to take part. Here’s what I think – the n-word (that specific slur in Standard American English – not the inocuous slang word used similarly to “dude” in African American Vernacular English) has been used for over a century to denigrate the very humanity of black people in America. And this denigration of their humanity served a purpose – to allow otherwise decent people to tolerate, support, and even participate in abominable acts of violence, brutality, and oppression of black people. Decent people generally are incapable of beating, raping, or lynching an inoffensive stranger. But if they’re not really human, and more like vermin, then suddenly decent people are capable of being persuaded to take part (and certainly capable of tolerating and even supporting such acts and policies). It’s impossible to separate that word from that history. Every time it’s used in anger as a slur, it’s a reminder to the target that _your forebears were bought and sold, beaten and raped, shot and hanged_, just because of the color of their skin. The idea that some humans actuall would _qualify_ for that kind of thing is terrible for our society, and just adding to the gigantic heap of shit that black people already have to deal with. **Shodan** says he’s not afraid. I wonder if he’s “brave” enough to actually refer to black person (say, a violent criminal) by that word _in the presence of any of his African American friends and neighbors_. If not, why do you think that is? Is it because he thinks those friends and neighbors (I’m assuming he does actually have some black friends and neighbors) are pathetic liberal snowflakes who can’t handle naughty words? Or is it because he knows that using that word really might pull up some deep-seated, awful but reasonably-held negative feelings, based on their own personal and family history, that would be wrong to instill in others, simply so that he could use a certain word he’d like to use? Assuming I’m correct, and he would refrain from doing so, I think it’s because of this last reason, as opposed to a fear of violence – because he does have some decency within him, and has no interest in causing such legitimate pain to other decent people. And thus some part of him (I’m guessing) probably knows that using that word is wrong, but another part him is too proud to let him admit it – to liberals, certainly, but maybe even to himself as well. So there’s some “maturity and nuance and honesty”, if you’re at all interested. All speculation, of course – I’m no mind reader. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-hurricaneditka-and-george-zimmerman-three-racist-peas-in-a-racist-pod/825691/66 "2018-12-07T17:26:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t. If **Shodan** was a comedian doing a satirical bit on language and the absurdity of racism, then I’d evaluate it differently. Satirical comedy bits are different than serious assertions about the appropriate usage of hateful slurs. > > So you’re afraid? We’ve had decent discussions in the Pit before. But if you’re scared, then you don’t have to take part. > > Here’s what I think – the n-word (that specific slur in Standard American English – not the inocuous slang word used similarly to “dude” in African American Vernacular English) has been used for over a century to denigrate the very humanity of black people in America. And this denigration of their humanity served a purpose – to allow otherwise decent people to tolerate, support, and even participate in abominable acts of violence, brutality, and oppression of black people. Decent people generally are incapable of beating, raping, or lynching an inoffensive stranger. But if they’re not really human, and more like vermin, then suddenly decent people are capable of being persuaded to take part (and certainly capable of tolerating and even supporting such acts and policies). > > It’s impossible to separate that word from that history. Every time it’s used in anger as a slur, it’s a reminder to the target that _your forebears were bought and sold, beaten and raped, shot and hanged_, just because of the color of their skin. The idea that some humans actuall would _qualify_ for that kind of thing is terrible for our society, and just adding to the gigantic heap of shit that black people already have to deal with. > > **Shodan** says he’s not afraid. I wonder if he’s “brave” enough to actually refer to black person (say, a violent criminal) by that word _in the presence of any of his African American friends and neighbors_. If not, why do you think that is? Is it because he thinks those friends and neighbors (I’m assuming he does actually have some black friends and neighbors) are pathetic liberal snowflakes who can’t handle naughty words? Or is it because he knows that using that word really might pull up some deep-seated, awful but reasonably-held negative feelings, based on their own personal and family history, that would be wrong to instill in others, simply so that he could use a certain word he’d like to use? Assuming I’m correct, and he would refrain from doing so, I think it’s because of this last reason, as opposed to a fear of violence – because he does have some decency within him, and has no interest in causing such legitimate pain to other decent people. And thus some part of him (I’m guessing) probably knows that using that word is wrong, but another part him is too proud to let him admit it – to liberals, certainly, but maybe even to himself as well. > > So there’s some “maturity and nuance and honesty”, if you’re at all interested. All speculation, of course – I’m no mind reader. Afraid? No. It’s pointless. Furthermore, I don’t think personal history is a way to encourage different standards. Anyways you almost had me suckered in! Look, iiandyiiii, you aren’t the typical forum member and even you use non-nuanced and weaponized language as a social approval cudgel. You are being disingenuous. Therefore the discussion is pointless. I’m surprised the forum just doesn’t ban that sort of talk altogether. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-hurricaneditka-and-george-zimmerman-three-racist-peas-in-a-racist-pod/825691/67 "2018-12-07T17:28:45Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Afraid? No. It’s pointless. Furthermore, I don’t think personal history is a way to encourage different standards. > > Anyways you almost had me suckered in! Look, iiandyiiii, you aren’t the typical forum member and even you use non-nuanced and weaponized language as a social approval cudgel. You are being disingenuous. > > Therefore the discussion is pointless. I’m surprised the forum just doesn’t ban that sort of talk altogether. Okay, a cryptic non-response (and an accusation of dishonesty). And no idea what you mean about “personal history” – I use different standards for satirical comedy bits than for serious assertions about how one ought to behave. I guess you weren’t really interested in any sort of “maturity and nuance and honesty”. I gave it a shot; it’s still there if you change your mind. You can tell me where I’m wrong if you like, or just make excuses and complain about the board if you’d prefer to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-hurricaneditka-and-george-zimmerman-three-racist-peas-in-a-racist-pod/825691/68 "2018-12-07T17:41:08Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It’s funny but obviously not surprising you have that race based double standard on language. **C O N T E X T M A T T E R S** (I’d write that in fire, 30 feet high, if I could, but I can’t, so we’ll have to go with this instead.) It’s not a double standard because of _context_. Specifically, the context of reclaiming a slur. A black man saying to another man, “Mah Nigga!” simply _means something different_ to a white man calling a black man “Nigger!” - specifically, the way **Shodan** seems insistent on using the term. I don’t know why it’s so hard for conservatives to grasp this. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-hurricaneditka-and-george-zimmerman-three-racist-peas-in-a-racist-pod/825691/69 "2018-12-07T17:45:51Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > **C O N T E X T M A T T E R S** > > (I’d write that in fire, 30 feet high, if I could, but I can’t, so we’ll have to go with this instead.) > > It’s not a double standard because of _context_. Specifically, the context of reclaiming a slur. A black man saying to another man, “Mah Nigga!” simply _means something different_ to a white man calling a black man “Nigger!” - specifically, the way **Shodan** seems insistent on using the term. I don’t know why it’s so hard for conservatives to grasp this. It’s even more than that – two different words (though with very closely related linguistic backgrounds), generally used in two different dialects of English. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-hurricaneditka-and-george-zimmerman-three-racist-peas-in-a-racist-pod/825691/70 "2018-12-07T17:55:27Z")
Well, they aren’t different words. Ugh… must resist… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-hurricaneditka-and-george-zimmerman-three-racist-peas-in-a-racist-pod/825691/71 "2018-12-07T18:00:18Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Well, they aren’t different words. [Study up](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigga) (and note the differences in spelling), if you like. > [@](#): > > Ugh… must resist… …discussion? I know! With discussion, people can learn, or god forbid, even change their minds! ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-hurricaneditka-and-george-zimmerman-three-racist-peas-in-a-racist-pod/825691/72 "2018-12-07T18:02:34Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Well, they aren’t different words. > > Ugh… must resist… They’re spelled differently, pronounced differently, and mean different things, but you don’t think they’re different words? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-hurricaneditka-and-george-zimmerman-three-racist-peas-in-a-racist-pod/825691/73 "2018-12-07T19:02:13Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > They’re spelled differently, pronounced differently, and mean different things, but you don’t think they’re different words? Yeah. And in Boston car is a different word. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-hurricaneditka-and-george-zimmerman-three-racist-peas-in-a-racist-pod/825691/74 "2018-12-07T19:08:42Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Yeah. And in Boston car is a different word. “Car” is spelled differently and has a different meaning? Could you provide a cite for this, please? ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-hurricaneditka-and-george-zimmerman-three-racist-peas-in-a-racist-pod/825691/75 "2018-12-07T19:30:44Z")
Just a continuation of the historic “unless you’re black” _wink_ _wink_ rule. All Americans have a right to: bear arms, vote, freedom of unreasonable search and seizure, etc… unless you’re black; then violations are to be defended to the death because…reasons. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-hurricaneditka-and-george-zimmerman-three-racist-peas-in-a-racist-pod/825691/76 "2018-12-07T19:50:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > “Car” is spelled differently and has a different meaning? Could you provide a cite for this, please? I imagine he’s getting caught up a bit both on the derivation of “nigga” as the non-rhotic AAVE pronunciation of “nigger” and as a reclamation of a slur. The one derived from the other; they are no longer the same. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-hurricaneditka-and-george-zimmerman-three-racist-peas-in-a-racist-pod/825691/77 "2018-12-07T20:00:20Z")
> [@andros](#): > > I imagine he’s getting caught up a bit both on the derivation of “nigga” as the non-rhotic AAVE pronunciation of “nigger” and as a reclamation of a slur. The one derived from the other; they are no longer the same. Even if they were, the context matters. Just like with literally every other piece of language. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-hurricaneditka-and-george-zimmerman-three-racist-peas-in-a-racist-pod/825691/78 "2018-12-08T01:13:47Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > us if the perplexing racial categorization of Zimmerman as a “white Hispanic” had been abandoned completely. There’s nothing perplexing about it. He’s a white man with Latino heritage. The vast majority of lighter skinned Latinos identify as white. The US census has race and ethnicity separate specifically because of this. And, FYI, we are aware of the “just asking questions” concept. You are in fact making insinuations about people on the left. You’re taking a normal term (which you would have known about simply by Googling it) and implying it really meant something else. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-hurricaneditka-and-george-zimmerman-three-racist-peas-in-a-racist-pod/825691/79 "2018-12-08T01:48:29Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > There’s nothing perplexing about it. He’s a white man with Latino heritage. The vast majority of lighter skinned Latinos identify as white. The US census has race and ethnicity separate specifically because of this. > > And, FYI, we are aware of the “just asking questions” concept. You are in fact making insinuations about people on the left. You’re taking a normal term (which you would have known about simply by Googling it) and implying it really meant something else. Believe it or not but Euros migrated to Latin America as either conquers, immigrants or refugees. Both the legendary TV host Don Francisco and legendary footie Announcer Andres Cantor has relatives fleeing Nazi Germany. Mexican beer was developed by central Euro immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![K2500](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f6c823/32.png) [@K2500](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K2500)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-hurricaneditka-and-george-zimmerman-three-racist-peas-in-a-racist-pod/825691/80 "2018-12-10T02:16:31Z")
> [@andros](#): > > I imagine he’s getting caught up a bit both on the derivation of “nigga” as the non-rhotic AAVE pronunciation of “nigger” and as a reclamation of a slur. The one derived from the other; they are no longer the same. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Even if they were, the context matters. Just like with literally every other piece of language. > [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > They’re spelled differently, pronounced differently, and mean different things, but you don’t think they’re different words? As BPC notes, context is everything. I can assure you that both forms can be spoken to mean the exact same thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-hurricaneditka-and-george-zimmerman-three-racist-peas-in-a-racist-pod/825691.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-hurricaneditka-and-george-zimmerman-three-racist-peas-in-a-racist-pod/825691.md?page=5)