# Shodan, quit playing games in GD (a necessary exercise in futility) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 30, 2008, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-quit-playing-games-in-gd-a-necessary-exercise-in-futility/454818 "2008-06-30T21:11:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-quit-playing-games-in-gd-a-necessary-exercise-in-futility/454818/61 "2008-07-01T10:39:38Z")
[QUOTE=E-Sabbath] He’s no worse than Elvis, though, now is he? [/QUOTE] Actually, he is. **Elvis** routinely raises points that can’t be ignored; it’s just his arguments that are crappy. **Shodan** rarely even manages the former. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-quit-playing-games-in-gd-a-necessary-exercise-in-futility/454818/62 "2008-07-01T10:48:29Z")
[QUOTE=E-Sabbath] He’s no worse than Elvis, though, now is he? [/QUOTE] In part, Elvis appeared believed Hillary should be the nominee because the Dems should not have to bend to the Reps demonization of the woman. But they do, aside from his other merits, Obama is also the pragmatic choice for nominee. A cautious Obama supporter should still find some difficulty in finding fault with **E’s** idealism. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-quit-playing-games-in-gd-a-necessary-exercise-in-futility/454818/63 "2008-07-01T11:52:50Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] I think what **RT** was in fact trying to argue was that it wasn’t just McCain’s divorce from his sick wife, but instead that he actively cheated on his first wife with his current one, and in fact divorced his first wife so that he could marry his current wife that shows a character defect. Kerry’s mere divorcing of his first wife is less immoral. [/QUOTE] Hence my repeated denial that Kerry’s divorce involved adultery. > [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Years ago I had a similar encounter with him, wherein he accused me of dishonest paraphrasing, and in the course of doing so paraphrased me dishonestly in a manner far worse (this according to conservatives and liberals–no bias there) than anything I could be accused of. I assume you mean [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6959424&highlight=Contract#post6959424). On preview, fuck it. No point in rehashing arguments no one is going to read. Regards, Shodan PS - Welcome back, **Scylla**. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-quit-playing-games-in-gd-a-necessary-exercise-in-futility/454818/64 "2008-07-01T12:13:07Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] I assume you mean [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6959424&highlight=Contract#post6959424). [/QUOTE] That’s it–thanks for the link! It’s every bit as funny as I remember it being (especially the ending pair of posts, in which you continued misrepresenting other people’s words in an effort to buttress your claim that I misrepresented other people’s words). You haven’t changed a bit, **Shodan**. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-quit-playing-games-in-gd-a-necessary-exercise-in-futility/454818/65 "2008-07-01T13:04:54Z")
I think **Shodan** _has_ changed if you look at the broad picture. He’s lost some of his wit and seems a little bitter. I have no idea if that is personal or political, but I miss that other side of him. I remember some of the meatier things that he has written. I feel compelled to type, “Shane! Come back!” Which reminds me, **Scylla**! Great to see you! Hubba! Hubba! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-quit-playing-games-in-gd-a-necessary-exercise-in-futility/454818/66 "2008-07-01T15:12:06Z")
Clearly, the next obvious step is to examine the medical records of Jane Wyman and the tax records of Nancy Davis. You Americans are so damn cute when you confuse morality and politics. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-quit-playing-games-in-gd-a-necessary-exercise-in-futility/454818/67 "2008-07-01T15:34:05Z")
[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness] **Scylla** , welcome back, butterfly! I wonder if I’m the only nerd out there flashing on slake moths. [/QUOTE] Goddamn, this was the first thing I thought of after Scylla’s remark. I am about 150 pages away from finishing the book, too. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-quit-playing-games-in-gd-a-necessary-exercise-in-futility/454818/68 "2008-07-01T15:35:05Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] [QUOTE=Scylla] I’ve evolved. The caterpillar that I was metamorphosed into the beautiful butterfly that I am today. [/QUOTE] Uh oh. This can’t be good. Oh, my. [/QUOTE] If there’s a “red dragon” tattoo on his back, I’m heading for the hills. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-quit-playing-games-in-gd-a-necessary-exercise-in-futility/454818/69 "2008-07-01T15:43:54Z")
[QUOTE=Sevastopol] In part, Elvis appeared believed Hillary should be the nominee because the Dems should not have to bend to the Reps demonization of the woman. But they do, aside from his other merits, Obama is also the pragmatic choice for nominee. A cautious Obama supporter should still find some difficulty in finding fault with **E’s** idealism. [/QUOTE] It has nothing to do with Elvis’s idealism, but his retarded, frustrating and downright annoying “debating” style. As **Merkwurdigliebe** so rightly pointed out in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=470177&page=1&pp=50) (more precisely, [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9862526&postcount=54)), it’s called [Conversational Terrorism](http://www.vandruff.com/art_converse.html). It’s so freakishly similar to Shodan’s, that sometimes I think they must be the same person\*. Short of that being the case, I’d swear they have both either studied and memorized the linked page, or keep a printout beside their computer to use as a cheat sheet. (\*I’m not really accusing them of that, just illustrating my point.) ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-quit-playing-games-in-gd-a-necessary-exercise-in-futility/454818/70 "2008-07-01T15:44:58Z")
[QUOTE=Sevastopol] In part, Elvis appeared believed Hillary should be the nominee [/QUOTE] Elvis isn’t just Elvis about Hillary. Elvis is Elvis about pretty much any argument. I started running into him in gun threads, where he insisted there was no individual right in the 2nd Amendment. And that Miller proved it. RTF is right, Elvis brings up good points. Sometimes Shodan does too. But mostly by accident, as far as I can tell. Welcome back, Scylla. Missed you. Next time, I’ll get your wife to aim lower. She tried to kill you anytime lately? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-quit-playing-games-in-gd-a-necessary-exercise-in-futility/454818/71 "2008-07-01T17:01:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Shall we just call him a troll? I think the term applies. He’s not meaningfully participating in the debate; he’s just seeing how long he can pretend to be part of it, seeing how long he can get folks like me to keep playing with him. No, Shodan isn’t a troll. A troll is just looking for a response. Shodan’s a True Believer. He’ll be lying there with his arms and legs cut off but he means it when he says it’s just a flesh wound. There is no amount of evidence that could convince him that he lost the argument. He’s not unique. But he stands out because he’s a conservative. The liberal True Believers on this board tend to blend in with larger crowd. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-quit-playing-games-in-gd-a-necessary-exercise-in-futility/454818/72 "2008-07-01T20:13:00Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] No, Shodan isn’t a troll. A troll is just looking for a response. Shodan’s a True Believer. He’ll be lying there with his arms and legs cut off but he means it when he says it’s just a flesh wound. There is no amount of evidence that could convince him that he lost the argument. He’s not unique. But he stands out because he’s a conservative. The liberal True Believers on this board tend to blend in with larger crowd. [/QUOTE] I dunno - I don’t see anyone else on either side giving something so near to the full Argument Clinic treatment. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-quit-playing-games-in-gd-a-necessary-exercise-in-futility/454818/73 "2008-07-01T20:36:43Z")
I don’t know about that - in that same thread I posted a cite from an article in _Chicago_ magazine and got this from **elucidator** : [QUOTE=elucidator] So, this fellow David Bernstien, he knows this stuff? He has the facts at his very fingertips? And I am obliged to take his word for it…why? [/QUOTE] Now, this seems a bit like a message board equivalent to sticking your fingers in your ears. And while he didn’t press the point, and I didn’t either, it sure struck me as strange. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-quit-playing-games-in-gd-a-necessary-exercise-in-futility/454818/74 "2008-07-01T21:26:09Z")
My question, which you find so “strange” is rather simple. Who is this fellow, and how is he empowered to declare who is, or is not, a “surrogate” for Obama. Given the almost instantaneous rejection by the Obamistas, I suggest that, perhaps, he is not so empowered. You didn’t answer me there, but somehow felt this was precisely the correct moment to bring it up, in an entirely unrelated thread about another person altogether. Well, OK, since you insist: what are his credentials in determining surrogate status? And if he has none, then my question is perfectly valid, don’t you agree? If you think you can pee on my shoes and tell me its raining, you gotta ‘nother think comin’. And as far as “not pressing the point”, bullshit! If you could have answered, you would have. I made my point, you didn’t answer, what should I press when the other guy folds? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-quit-playing-games-in-gd-a-necessary-exercise-in-futility/454818/75 "2008-07-01T21:41:19Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] My question, which you find so “strange” is rather simple. Who is this fellow, and how is he empowered to declare who is, or is not, a “surrogate” for Obama. Given the almost instantaneous rejection by the Obamistas, I suggest that, perhaps, he is not so empowered. [/QUOTE] Kerry, not Obama. In the thread, **Dio** said that the only one who brought up Kerry’s medals in the 2004 campaign were the swiftboaters. **Mr. Moto** said the Kerry campaign did, in Max Cleland’s speech introducing Kerry at the convention. The conversation wasn’t about Obama. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-quit-playing-games-in-gd-a-necessary-exercise-in-futility/454818/76 "2008-07-01T21:51:41Z")
You’re right. Apologies where due. I suppose he figured that there is some equivalence between me and **Shodan.** Which reminds me, I need another shower. ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2008, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-quit-playing-games-in-gd-a-necessary-exercise-in-futility/454818/77 "2008-07-02T01:36:00Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] Clearly, the next obvious step is to examine the medical records of Jane Wyman and the tax records of Nancy Davis. You Americans are so damn cute when you confuse morality and politics. [/QUOTE] Aw, shucks. You shouldn’t have. :o Seriously, that may be the most dead-on thing I’ve seen in ages. It does seem that many members of our tribe think politics consists solely of morality. Makes you wonder how we’ve kept the wheels on this scooter for 220 years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-quit-playing-games-in-gd-a-necessary-exercise-in-futility/454818.md?page=3)