# Shodan... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 13, 2004, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan/259704 "2004-08-13T16:31:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan/259704/21 "2004-08-13T18:59:33Z")
> [@Mojo](#): > > By calling him a liar about his opinions? Where did he do that? He called him dishonest and a coward and a hysterial partisan and a ton of other things. But I didn’t see where he wrote that **Shodan** is lying about his opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan/259704/22 "2004-08-13T19:09:52Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Shodan … is a sanctimonious, disingenuous gutless little fuck. And on top of that, he has a girl’s name, too. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan/259704/23 "2004-08-13T19:26:15Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > **Shodan…** > …is a sanctimonious, disingenuous gutless little fuck. _Dateline: Planet Obvious._ ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan/259704/24 "2004-08-13T19:32:05Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > When the fuck did I claim that? I keep saying I AM a partisan but that accuracy is more important to me than my partisanship? WTF is so hard to understand about that? It’s not hard to understand at all. It is just hard to believe. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > It’s implicit in your charges of partisanship in others. It’s a pot-kettle-black kind of thing. And so, when you accuse me of partisanship, you are necessarily claiming that you are being non-partisan. It a pot-kettle-partisan thing. So that is where you claimed to be non-partisan, when you accused me of being partisan. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > This is a chickenshit answer but it’s my fault for giving you the loophole. So when you ask if I am in favor of an accurate voting system, and if that is more important to me than that Bush wins, and I answer, “Yes”, you consider that a chickenshit answer? Let’s see if I can put it in terms that will penetrate your cranium. How about, “Yes, you moron”. Better? I don’t know enough about voting machines to express an opinion on what system would be the best. I want the most accurate system reasonably attainable. If the results of November’s election are accurate and Kerry wins, well and good. If the results are accurate and Bush wins, I intend to post “Neener neener neener” and revel in the sound of exploding heads as the SDMB Lockstep Lemmings of the Left all melt down in unison. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Let me rephrase the question: Oh no, you don’t. I’ve already answered your question. Now I get to ask one. Suppose the election is extremely close. If the losing side protests the result, files lawsuits to get the rules changed, complains that the margin was too narrow to be meaningful, etc., will you [list=a][li]shut the fuck up and not complain about it, or [\*]agree that they have every right in the world to do this and their only motive must be to see that the election was fair?[/list]Which is it? [/li] And if your answer, either implicitly or in actual fact, now or later, is “that depends on who wins”, then you are just exactly what I said you were. Failing that, you could just post a link to a thread where you told the Democrats to stop whining about 2000 and that Bush won fair and square, and I will apologize. On preview: > [@Miller](#): > > And on top of that, he has a girl’s name, too. 😕 Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan/259704/25 "2004-08-13T19:33:22Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > And on top of that, he has a girl’s name, too. Geez, you really know how to hurt a guy. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan/259704/26 "2004-08-13T19:38:35Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > On preview: > 😕 > > Regards, > Shodan [http://www.womengamers.com/dw/shodan.htm](http://www.womengamers.com/dw/shodan.htm) I’d always assumed that’s where you got your name from. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan/259704/27 "2004-08-13T19:38:47Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > > [@Dio](#): > > > > This is a chickenshit answer but it’s my fault for giving you the loophole. > > So when you ask if I am in favor of an accurate voting system, and if that is more important to me than that Bush wins, and I answer, “Yes”, you consider that a chickenshit answer? Let’s see if I can put it in terms that will penetrate your cranium. How about, “Yes, you moron”. Better? His question that you gave the chickenshit answer to didn’t have fuck-all to do with Bush. Uncram, moron. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan/259704/28 "2004-08-13T20:02:42Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] Suppose the election is extremely close. If the losing side protests the result, files lawsuits to get the rules changed, complains that the margin was too narrow to be meaningful, etc., will you [list=a][li]shut the fuck up and not complain about it, or agree that they have every right in the world to do this and their only motive must be to see that the election was fair?[/list]Which is it? [/li][/QUOTE] Way to give no meaningful answer there. Of COURSE the loser will file lawsuits to get the rules changed, will fight in court. Of COURSE they have every right to do so. And of COURSE their motive isn’t going to be to “see that the election was fair.” What celestial dimension do you live in, in which fairness is the pre-eminent concern of any major party political candidate? A call for fairness on **Diogenes’s** part is not an admission of stupidity or abject naivete on his part. I agree with him here: it’s more important to have a fair election than a wise election, and if Bush wins fair and square, I’ll grit my teeth down to powder and deal with it. But I’ll be just a bit unhappy if he–OR if Kerry–wins by cheating. There’s a difference, by the way, between being partisan, and being undemocratic. Will I be unhappier if Bush wins unfairly than if Kerry does? I confess I will: I don’t have a great deal of control over my emotions like that. But that doesn’t translate to my supporting cheating on Kerry’s part: I absolutely condemn it, and am appalled at anyone who advocates dirty Kerry tactics. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan/259704/29 "2004-08-13T20:17:00Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It’s not hard to understand at all. It is just hard to believe. Maybe you’re projecting. > [@](#): > > And so, when you accuse me of partisanship, you are necessarily claiming that you are being non-partisan. It a pot-kettle-partisan thing. So that is where you claimed to be non-partisan, when you accused me of being partisan. I have said in both threads that I am a partisan. I said it _before_ I called _you_ a partisan. > [@](#): > > So when you ask if I am in favor of an accurate voting system, and if that is more important to me than that Bush wins, and I answer, “Yes”, you consider that a chickenshit answer? Let’s see if I can put it in terms that will penetrate your cranium. How about, “Yes, you moron”. Better? More chickenshit. My question was asked in the light of knowing the problems with Diebold. I’m asking if you are _satisfied_ with Diebold, even knowing the problems, or if you would like a _more_ reliable system or at least a paper trail. I’ll put it very simple so you can’t weasel out of it. Do you object to a paper trail for the Diebold machines? Yes or no? > [@](#): > > I don’t know enough about voting machines to express an opinion on what system would be the best. I want the most accurate system reasonably attainable. You know that the Diebold machines are NOT accurate. This has been amply demonstrated. Are you satsified with them or would you like to see some safeguards like a paper trail? > [@](#): > > If the results of November’s election are accurate and Kerry wins, well and good. If the results are accurate and Bush wins, I intend to post “Neener neener neener” and revel in the sound of exploding heads as the SDMB Lockstep Lemmings of the Left all melt down in unison. [Don’t get your hopes up.](http://electoral-vote.com/) It is particularly interesting to note that even though John Kerry is leading in Florida at the moment he no longer needs it to win the election. These polls have been incrementally growing in Kerry’s favor for the past several weeks. Kerry is quietly gaining separation in the electoral race. I wouldn’t start drafting the “neener neener” thread just yet. > [@](#): > > Oh no, you don’t. I’ve already answered your question. Oh no you didn’t, you chickenshit Paper trail? Yes or no. > [@](#): > > Now I get to ask one. > > Suppose the election is extremely close. If the losing side protests the result, files lawsuits to get the rules changed, complains that the margin was too narrow to be meaningful, etc., will you [list=a][li]shut the fuck up and not complain about it, or [\*]agree that they have every right in the world to do this and their only motive must be to see that the election was fair?[/list]Which is it?[/li][/quote] > > Your question makes no sense. On what grounds is the loser objecting? “The margin is too narrow” for what? What “rules” are they trying to change? You haven’t given enough data for me to formulate an answer. > > If there is some legitimate question about the accuracy of the vote then I would support a full review or recount or whatever, regardless of the winner. > > > [@](#): > > > > And if your answer, either implicitly or in actual fact, now or later, is “that depends on who wins”, then you are just exactly what I said you were. Failing that, you could just post a link to a thread where you told the Democrats to stop whining about 2000 and that Bush won fair and square, and I will apologize. > > Why would I say it matters who the winner is? What kind of bullshit answer would that be? You haven’t explained what your hypothetical dispute is _about_ so it makes no sense to ask me to form an opinion about it. It’s like saying, “One guy sues another guy in court. Which guy do you think should win?” It’s an incomplete question, not because you haven’t identified the guys but because you haven’t given any facts about the dispute. There is nothing to anlyze for an answer. > > On preview: > 😕 > > Regards, > Shodan ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan/259704/30 "2004-08-13T20:31:02Z")
This Pitting shows signs of degenerating into a civil discussion and debate as to the reliability of voting machinery. I won’t have it! There’s a time and a place to behave in a proper and gentlemanly fashion, sirs, and the Pit is most definitely not the place! If you are determined to drag down this mutual calumny into partisan politesse and mutual respect, you should never have left the wussy-ass GD to begin with! Kids these days, I swear… ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan/259704/31 "2004-08-13T20:34:20Z")
Diogenes 1 Shodan 0 ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan/259704/32 "2004-08-13T20:37:38Z")
Just dropping by to suggest that it is poor debating style and bad form for **Shodan** to question a poster’s intentions and sincerity rather than confront the issues raised. On the other hand, the glow of indignation is diminished somewhat when the poster in question asserts that Florida is “in the bag” for Kerry if only the votes are counted accurately, meaning that he’ll automatically presume cheating if Kerry manages to lose the state. That doesn’t lend a lot of credence to the “partisan but really just concerned with fairness” argument. I mostly enjoy **Shodan’s** posts, even when I disagree with him. The claim that he is a “sanctimonious, disingenuous gutless little fuck” doesn’t resonate, though like others I could not swear to his size, stature-wise. If he could refrain from spewing gasoline on the flames of post-2000, pre-2004 left-wing rage in GD, that would be wise. Have a nice vacation. Stay away from Internet cafes. The one nonsensical reply to my comment in that thread about the lack of seriousness of both Dems and GOPs on election reform (based on silence about the renewed specter of the Electoral College)\* doesn’t surprise me. I still think both sides don’t have the courage or wisdom to deal with that problem, and the game-playing right now has more to do with political posturing than a real wish for reform (I support the paper-trail business too, but not because of a belief that Dems are poor little chickens going to the slaughter at the hands of the rapacious Republicans, with no shenanigans in the other direction). \*No E.C. in 2000, Gore is President. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan/259704/33 "2004-08-13T20:39:03Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It’s not hard to understand at all. It is just hard to believe. That’s pretty lame. **DtC** has never to my knowledge indicated he would want his candidate to win illegitimately. If you can point out a post where he did, you’d have some credibility there. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan/259704/34 "2004-08-13T20:56:13Z")
> [@](#): > > On the other hand, the glow of indignation is diminished somewhat when the poster in question asserts that Florida is “in the bag” for Kerry if only the votes are counted accurately, meaning that he’ll automatically presume cheating if Kerry manages to lose the state. I didn’t quite mean to imply that I would presume _cheating_. I’m really more concerned about the bugginess of the machines than genuine attempts at fraud by the Pubs. I was blustering a bit when I said that Florida was like my left nut, but seriously, if a result in a given state is dramatically at odds with polling and expectations (let’s say Kerry won Texas, for instance) it should give one pause, should it not? Especially if unreliable voting machines are used and there is no paper trail. If Kerry loses Florida and the paper trail supports that result, you will hear no cries of “fraud” on my part, I will just have to sharpen my barbs for another four years of chimp rule. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan/259704/35 "2004-08-13T21:04:48Z")
\*\*Shodan \*\*is one of the most shamelessly dishonest contributors to this board. Thankfully though I live in a nearly Shodan-free world: I only see stuff he posts when somebody quotes him. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan/259704/36 "2004-08-13T21:11:50Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The claim that he is a “sanctimonious, disingenuous gutless little fuck” doesn’t resonate, though like others I could not swear to his size, stature-wise. Me neither, althought frankly, I’ve always pictured him as a large, strong, more or less strong and silent type in offline life, with martial arts skills and the ability to kick the asses of most people he meets, but who chooses to outsmart them instead. Funny how perceptions vary, isn’t it? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan/259704/37 "2004-08-13T21:26:45Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The claim that he is a “sanctimonious, disingenuous gutless little fuck” doesn’t resonate Yes, it does. And adding “smug” to the list of appropriate adjectives makes it resonate even better. ---
**Author:** ![pervert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbe5ce/32.png) [@pervert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pervert)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan/259704/38 "2004-08-13T21:35:15Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > \*No E.C. in 2000, Gore is President. Or perhaps we are still counting chads. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan/259704/39 "2004-08-13T21:44:03Z")
Would that we could trade the Shodans and Brutuses in for more Sam Stones. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan/259704/40 "2004-08-13T21:44:37Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > \*\*Shodan \*\*is one of the most shamelessly dishonest contributors to this board. Thankfully though I live in a nearly Shodan-free world: I only see stuff he posts when somebody quotes him. Way to go, [genius](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=106617). > [@](#): > > Ignore list - after much deliberation we decided to keep the ignore list (and buddy list) available to members. Part of the reason we were hesitant is because we didn’t want to see flame wars caused by PosterX telling PosterY “you can say whatever you want to me, I don’t care because you’re on my ignore list.” Hinting that any particular person or group of people is on your ignore list is very strictly frowned upon. **Revealing the usernames of people on your ignore list is forbidden at this board.** Asswipe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan/259704.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan/259704.md?page=3)