# Shogun, by James Clavell **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 19, 2006, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-by-james-clavell/340596 "2006-01-19T02:47:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-by-james-clavell/340596/1 "2006-01-19T02:47:01Z")
I just finished this wonderful book. What can I say? I couldn’t possibly have enough praise for it. It was poetry in prose, and I feel as though I’ve watched a flower bloom. Beautifully written, beautifully set down, and the Lady Mariko touched my heart. I think it will rank up there as one of the best books I have ever read. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-by-james-clavell/340596/2 "2006-01-19T03:08:01Z")
This is the Anji-San novel they made the mini-series out of, right? I’m glad you liked it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-by-james-clavell/340596/3 "2006-01-19T03:13:01Z")
I agree…it was a very interesting book. I don’t believe it was very historically accurate, but certainly an enjoyable read. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-by-james-clavell/340596/4 "2006-01-19T03:13:16Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I just finished this wonderful book. > > What can I say? I couldn’t possibly have enough praise for it. It was poetry in prose, and I feel as though I’ve watched a flower bloom. > > Beautifully written, beautifully set down, and the Lady Mariko touched my heart. I think it will rank up there as one of the best books I have ever read. It’s certainly Clavell’s best work. I have it in hardback, as I really like it too, and a paperback is so thick it falls apart. I have two favorite “scenes”. The first is the one in which Blackthorne declares his intention to kill himself if the villagers don’t get a reprieve. Great exposition of internal thought. The second is when Blackthorne tells Toranaga, through Mariko, that he now understands, and is at peace with, the death of Old Gardener. That’s after the earthquake. The television mini-series was actually pretty good. That Toshiro Mifune would play Toranaga was a given. The show, as with any screen version from a long complex book, left out a lot, but it kept the flavor I think. It was funny to watch the scene where Blackthorne pretended to go mad. Until I read some more Japanese history I didn’t realize the book was based on actual events, the shogunate of Ieyasu Tokugawa. There was a stranded mariner named Will Adams. Charlton Heston, in his autobiography, mentioned that back in the 60’s I think, a movie about Adams was proposed, but it never go off the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Doctor\_Who](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Who)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-by-james-clavell/340596/5 "2006-01-19T03:17:32Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > It’s certainly Clavell’s best work. _cough_ Umm… Actually, Clavell’s best work is certainly **King Rat**. Don’t get me wrong, Shogun rocks - but King Rat is better. Give this one a try too! I think you’ll enjoy it. I’ve read it over and over and never gotten tired of it. - Peter Wiggen ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-by-james-clavell/340596/6 "2006-01-19T03:21:07Z")
I have the miniseries on tape, and play it for my Modern World History classes at the end of the term. They have universally loved it. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-by-james-clavell/340596/7 "2006-01-19T03:21:27Z")
Actually, I think Clavell did a great deal of research for his Asian Saga (Shogun, Gai-Jin, Tai-Pan, King Rat & Whirlwind). Whether or not he purposely modeled Struan’s on an existing company (Jardine Matheson) has been debated for years. But I think it’s pretty obvious he cares a lot about historical accuracy in terms of customs, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-by-james-clavell/340596/8 "2006-01-19T03:37:42Z")
Whether or not the book is historically accurate, the _feel_ of the thing seemed, at least to this hobbyist gaijin, to be a lot closer in tone to the real thing than a lot of meticulously researched fiction I’ve read on the same subject. I really just couldn’t put _Shogun_ down until I finished it - haven’t seen the miniseries though. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-by-james-clavell/340596/9 "2006-01-19T04:04:47Z")
Yes…the mood it set was _perfect_. I haven’t read a book that captured me like that in a long, long time. I will certainly read his other stuff…my SO’s brother moved recently and gave me several of his old books, and this was one of them, as well as a couple of other Clavell’s. I’m not sure what they are. \*Shigata ga nai. \* ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-by-james-clavell/340596/10 "2006-01-19T04:20:56Z")
“The names have been changed to protect the innocent.” Tokugawa -\> Toranaga, etc. This allowed Clavell to follow the broad outline of historical events while getting creative as he liked with the details. FYI, even Blackthorne was based on a real-life person – William Adams. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William\_Adams](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Adams) ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-by-james-clavell/340596/11 "2006-01-19T06:01:24Z")
> [@PeterWiggen](#): > > _cough_ > > Umm… Actually, Clavell’s best work is certainly **King Rat**. Don’t get me wrong, Shogun rocks - but King Rat is better. > > Give this one a try too! I think you’ll enjoy it. I’ve read it over and over and never gotten tired of it. > > - Peter Wiggen I read it, and it’s a good book, but I still thought Shogun was better, and like it more. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-by-james-clavell/340596/12 "2006-01-19T06:34:23Z")
I’ve been meaning to read this again. I loved it when I read it when I was in high school. It doesn’t have a very good reputation in my field (Japanese history), and I’m curious as to how I’ll find it now that I know so much more about the period. ---
**Author:** ![BadBadger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@BadBadger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BadBadger)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-by-james-clavell/340596/13 "2006-01-19T09:36:55Z")
> [@PeterWiggen](#): > > _cough_ > > Umm… Actually, Clavell’s best work is certainly **King Rat**. Don’t get me wrong, Shogun rocks - but King Rat is better. > > Give this one a try too! I think you’ll enjoy it. I’ve read it over and over and never gotten tired of it. > > - Peter Wiggen This just reminded me of something. I was reading the book (King Rat) and trying to squat like the Javanese (?) do to see if it was actually efficient. Looked odd and kept falling over… Anyway, back on track. I think Shogun (along with LoTR) was the book that really set me on the path to reading. The intricacies of the plots componded by Eastern philosophy and Bushido just kept me captivated the whole time. You just keep willing Anjin-San to do a particular thing and then he rushes off and does soemthing way over the top. The TV series was actually really good. The book is great, but to be able to visualise the land and the people in particular the samurai, is rather good … ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Doctor\_Who](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Who)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-by-james-clavell/340596/14 "2006-01-19T10:10:06Z")
> [@BadBadger](#): > > This just reminded me of something. I was reading the book (King Rat) and trying to squat like the Javanese (?) do to see if it was actually efficient. Looked odd and kept falling over. This got a huge laugh out of me. You know why? Because when I read it the first time - I got up and tried it too. Same laughable results. 🙂 - Peter Wiggen ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-by-james-clavell/340596/15 "2006-01-19T12:46:24Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Yes…the mood it set was _perfect_. I haven’t read a book that captured me like that in a long, long time. I will certainly read his other stuff…my SO’s brother moved recently and gave me several of his old books, and this was one of them, as well as a couple of other Clavell’s. I’m not sure what they are. > > \*Shigata ga nai. \* Read them in order. It’s not exactly a saga, but characters from one book will be referenced in another: Shogun Tai-Pan Gai-Jin (his last work ☹ ) King Rat Noble House Whirlwind (actually, you can skip this one. I didn’t like it at all. As one reviewer wrote, “I knew I was in trouble when one of the main characters died and I didn’t care.” ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-by-james-clavell/340596/16 "2006-01-19T12:48:07Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > I read it, and it’s a good book, but I still thought Shogun was better, and like it more. I agree too, but King Rat has one of the most chilling last lines of a book I have ever read. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-by-james-clavell/340596/17 "2006-01-19T13:05:32Z")
I love the book, too - one of the first “grown up” books I read as a teen and felt fully involved in. Clearly Clavell’s writing experience - didn’t he script early TV series? - helped with this one. I have a first edition I picked up - hard to find one without the spine all wobbly - for very little at a used book store… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Goob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c77e96/32.png) [@Mr.Goob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Goob)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-by-james-clavell/340596/18 "2006-01-19T14:57:35Z")
I read all of them but Whirlwind. (is it even in print? I’ve looked for it off and on and then heard it was awful and stopped looking.) I had to spread it out and read some fluffier stuff in between. Keeping track of the bazillion characters in Noble House had me flipping backwards to remember who was who. Tai-Pan was my favorite, King Rat was probably the ‘best’ ---
**Author:** ![BadBadger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@BadBadger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BadBadger)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-by-james-clavell/340596/19 "2006-01-19T15:09:21Z")
Ahh, I’m gonna have to read em all again now … cept Whirlwind of course. That was dire. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-by-james-clavell/340596/20 "2006-01-19T15:15:59Z")
I agree, Noble House was barely readable. Too confusing, too much packed in, considering the time span of the book is only one week. The books set earlier are a much easier read. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-by-james-clavell/340596.md?page=2)