# Shogun: I'm being duped. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 11, 2004, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-im-being-duped/233631 "2004-03-11T04:08:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-im-being-duped/233631/1 "2004-03-11T04:08:25Z")
Alright, I know that Shogun, by James Clavell, is not exactly an epitome of historical fact. I can see some of the myths that I used to believe in it, in fact. However, since it is more subtly wrong than several other (horrid) things I have read, would the Teeming Millions please enlighten me to its less obvious failings? I’m almost done, so as long as you don’t spoil the last… say… 200 pages, I’m good. Heh, I love a book so long that 200 pages from the end is “almost done.” If this belongs in Cafe Society, feel free to move it. I just felt that since this seems reasonably cut-and-dry, I’d put it here. ---
**Author:** ![Willmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ad7895/32.png) [@Willmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Willmore)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-im-being-duped/233631/2 "2004-03-11T04:31:59Z")
SPOILER In the end, he finds a buried machine-gun, and kills all the samurai. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-im-being-duped/233631/3 "2004-03-11T04:37:07Z")
It’s been a long, long time since I read Shogun and at the time I wasn’t all that knowledgeable about Japan. Clavell did a tremendous amount of research for this book. You probably know that this is essentially a true story. Blackthorne’s real name was Will Adams. It’s probably as accurate as you could expect a historical novel written by a complete outsider to be. Most of the errors I’ve heard mentioned were anachronisms. Guns, for instance, were introduced earlier than is suggested - Nobunaga’s army (Goroda in Shogun) was famous for using them. The Japanese is accurate… for the 20th century. Classical Japanese is quite different from the modern language. Actually, I think that might be one of the biggest errors. I’d probably have to read it again to spot more. Essentially, though, it’s mostly relatively minor mistakes. If you like Shogun, you should definitely check out [Musashi](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/4770019572/qid=1078979723/sr=1-7/ref=sr_1_7_xs_stripbooks_i7_xgl14/102-9871401-1864946?v=glance&s=books), if you haven’t already done so. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-im-being-duped/233631/4 "2004-03-11T04:49:04Z")
> [@jovan](#): > > Most of the errors I’ve heard mentioned were anachronisms. Guns, for instance, were introduced earlier than is suggested - Nobunaga’s army (Goroda in Shogun) was famous for using them. Wow, I actually figured that one out on my own. I was reading about famous historical figures of the time, and I got the obvious Tokugawa/Toranaga connection, and at first I thought that the Taiko was Nobunaga, but then I thought “Nay, it must be Goroda.” However, now I’ve completely forgotten the name of the Taiko… ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-im-being-duped/233631/5 "2004-03-11T04:57:05Z")
> [@Speaker for the Dead](#): > > However, now I’ve completely forgotten the name of the Taiko… Hideyoshi Toyotomi. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shogun-im-being-duped/233631/6 "2004-03-12T04:01:46Z")
> [@jovan](#): > > Hideyoshi Toyotomi. Ah, thank you. I knew it had “yoshi” in it somewhere, but couldn’t place it. I should really study Japanese History more. Fascinating stuff.