# Shoot a cop, get a pass, WTF? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 27, 2005, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877 "2005-11-27T04:08:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/1 "2005-11-27T04:08:07Z")
[http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-copshoot26.html](http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-copshoot26.html) Let’s see here, a Black Panther shoots a cop, partially paralyzing him, causing him to lose his job. Charged with attempted murder and aggravated battery. Jumps bail. Living illegally in Canada, getting married illegally in Canada, working illegally in Canada. Oh, yeah, he’s an Army deserter too. But he has at least 100 supporters. After all, he’s a “youth mentor”, and a fine upstanding gentleman, right? The '70s were so long ago, people change, we should get over it. I don’t think so. Life sentence, minimum. Otherwise it’s just politics as usual. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/2 "2005-11-27T04:25:17Z")
What the hell are you talking about? He’s not “getting a pass”; he’s being extradicted to the US to stand trial. He has _not_ been convicted yet, and it remains to be seen which way the case will go. Neither you nor I have sufficient evidence to determine his guilt or innocence at this point–that is what the courts are for. Are you pitting his supporters? Why? Because they choose to believe he is innocent until such time as he is convicted of the crime in court? He may very well _be_ guilty, but I’ll leave that to the legal system to determine. If some wish to support him, so what? ---
**Author:** ![deevee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@deevee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deevee)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/3 "2005-11-27T04:26:39Z")
Dude. _Carl the Shit God_ can claim 100 supporters. Richard Ramirez gets a ton of pussy (he just can’t touch it). The paperwork is in order and he’s on his way back. ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/4 "2005-11-27T04:32:03Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > What the hell are you talking about? He’s not “getting a pass”; he’s being extradicted to the US to stand trial. He has _not_ been convicted yet, and it remains to be seen which way the case will go. Neither you nor I have sufficient evidence to determine his guilt or innocence at this point–that is what the courts are for. Are you pitting his supporters? Why? Because they choose to believe he is innocent until such time as he is convicted of the crime in court? He may very well _be_ guilty, but I’ll leave that to the legal system to determine. If some wish to support him, so what? No one seems to be arguing that he didn’t commit the crime he’s accused of. Anyway, he jumped bail, is an illegal alien, and an Army deserter. What is there to support in any of that? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/5 "2005-11-27T04:41:13Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > No one seems to be arguing that he didn’t commit the crime he’s accused of. You don’t know this. The article doesn not say much about his supporters, and there is not enough information given to determine if any of them believe he is guilty but should be let go because of his “exemplary life” or if they believe he is innocent. > [@Updike](#): > > Anyway, he jumped bail, is an illegal alien, and an Army deserter. What is there to support in any of that? None of that is proof of his guilt, disdainful as those behaviors may be. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/6 "2005-11-27T04:41:17Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > No one seems to be arguing that he didn’t commit the crime he’s accused of. Maybe, unlike you, they’re prepared to wait and see what evidence is presented? You know, instead of assuming it and all. > [@](#): > > Anyway, he jumped bail, is an illegal alien, and an Army deserter. What is there to support in any of that? He’s apparently also a pillar of the community, a father, and a mentor to young people - what in that is there to hate? If you’re going to pick and choose which characteristic you use to judge a person, well, that sounds pretty biased to me. Don’t get me wrong; it would seem (from that source) that he could very well be guilty. I’d like to hear some evidence, first, though. ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/7 "2005-11-27T04:47:30Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > None of that is proof of his guilt, disdainful as those behaviors may be. That’s exactly my point. It doesn’t prove he shot the cop, but he’s still guilty of the other crimes, which you dismiss as “behaviors”, like jumping bail, illegal immigration, etc. Can you deny that? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/8 "2005-11-27T04:54:25Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > …he’s still guilty of the other crimes, which you dismiss as “behaviors”, like jumping bail, illegal immigration, etc. Can you deny that? Any chance he got a blow job? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/9 "2005-11-27T04:56:39Z")
There is no evidence in that article that he was in Canada illegally, except for a quote by Knox, the alleged victim. Ditto for the alleged “illegal marriage”. Knox is biased and is not a reliable source of such information. One article cannot provide sufficient evidence that he is, in fact, guilty of anything. I will not form an opinion on his guilt or innocence based on a single source. Again, that is the purpose of our legal system. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/10 "2005-11-27T04:59:11Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > That’s exactly my point. It doesn’t prove he shot the cop, but he’s still guilty of the other crimes, which you dismiss as “behaviors”, like jumping bail, illegal immigration, etc. Can you deny that? > [@Updike](#): > > But he has at least 100 supporters. After all, he’s a “youth mentor”, and a fine upstanding gentleman, right? The '70s were so long ago, people change, we should get over it. I don’t think so. Life sentence, minimum. Otherwise it’s just politics as usual. So, you think he should get a Life sentence. Based on what? I’d hate for you to be my judge. ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/11 "2005-11-27T05:02:05Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > There is no evidence in that article that he was in Canada illegally, except for a quote by Knox, the alleged victim. Ditto for the alleged “illegal marriage”. Knox is biased and is not a reliable source of such information. One article cannot provide sufficient evidence that he is, in fact, guilty of anything. I will not form an opinion on his guilt or innocence based on a single source. Again, that is the purpose of our legal system. Did he, or did he not, jump bail, and flee to Canada? He also deserted the Army, btw. An innocent lamb, is he? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/12 "2005-11-27T05:08:37Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > Did he, or did he not, jump bail, and flee to Canada? He also deserted the Army, btw I don’t know. The article claims so, but again, it is only one source and it does not say where the author obtained this information from. Even so, I’m willing to stipulate that he did desert the army, skip bail and flee the country, for the sake of argument. Does that automatically mean he deserves a life sentence? No. He is still entitled to a fair trial and the presumtion of innocence. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/13 "2005-11-27T05:21:32Z")
The relationship between the Panthers and the police in those years was convoluted, intense, and nasty. If a Panther had some doubts about his chances of a fair trial, in those dark days, I couldn’t fault him. Mind you, I make no pretense of judging guilt or innocence here. As I remember those days, I remember thinking that the BP made a HUGE mistake confusing crime with “revolutionary action” and enlisting thugs into their ranks. A clear example of ideology overuling good sense. By the same token, not all cops of the era were racist creeps. But enough _were_ to make the situation murky. We would be wise to suspend any judgement until much more is known. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/14 "2005-11-27T06:45:28Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Any chance he got a blow job? It depends on what the definition of “is” is. Count me in with the folks that aren’t quite clear what the OP is on about. The wife, naturally, speaks in his defense, and a collection of people–most likely close friends–are “supporters”, but that’s pretty much irrelevent to the issue of extradition and trial. It’s highly unlikely that Canada will deny extradition and prevent him from standing trial. I don’t see anybody “get[ting] a pass” here. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/15 "2005-11-27T07:10:28Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > Did he, or did he not, jump bail, and flee to Canada? He also deserted the Army, btw. > > An innocent lamb, is he? Ah. Yes. Jumping bail. Certainly a crime deserving of a life sentence :rolleyes: . And cetainly a good reason for your friends and loved ones to abandon you. The point, I think, is that (due to how he’s lived his life for 30-some years) he has a lot of friends who support him. That’s why they’re called friends. The legal system on the other hand is not his friend (or his enemy). It’s just sending him back for a trial. So what “pass” are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/16 "2005-11-27T07:36:04Z")
> [@deevee](#): > > The paperwork is in order and he’s on his way back. > [@betenoir](#): > > It’s just sending him back for a trial No, he’s not “on his way back”. [As his lawyer says, “This is far from over”](http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1132960212961). Unfortunately. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/17 "2005-11-27T08:17:09Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > No, he’s not “on his way back”. [As his lawyer says, “This is far from over”](http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1132960212961). > Unfortunately. :mad: Err…no. The judge has ordered his extradition. The American consul said there was nothing he could do. The legal system says he’s going back. His wife and his lawyer say “this is far from over”. As they would, wouldn’t they? ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/18 "2005-11-27T08:21:36Z")
> [@betenoir](#): > > Err…no. Err … read the linked story. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/19 "2005-11-27T08:25:41Z")
36 years _is_ a hell of a long time ago. To put it in perspective, back then I was an immature egg in my then 4 year old mother’s ovaries. Yes, 4 decades is plenty of time to change. Let’s also not forget that this guy was 19 when this shooting _allegedly_ took place. If this guy has completely changed and become a different person, just what exactly is the point of punishing him? What does it accomplish? ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/20 "2005-11-27T08:28:46Z")
Much as I have distaste for those who assault LEOs, there’s no need to get fired up about the basic legal hoohah which always abounds in cases such as these. He’s going to try every possible legal dodge to avoid facing charges, and I’ll place my trust in the Canadian government to turn him over to US authorities once those avenues open to him are exhausted. Once he’s back in a US courthouse, let the charges be brought, and _ **if** _ he’s convicted, then by all means hang the bastard, but not until then. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877.md?page=2)