# Shoot a cop, get a pass, WTF? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 27, 2005, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877 "2005-11-27T04:08:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/21 "2005-11-27T09:03:27Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > Err … read the linked story. Err…I did. Did you? It says just what I said. He had an extradition hearing. The judge ordered he be sent back to face trial. His wife appealed to the American consel. He said he couldn’t do anything other that “visit” him. His wife and lawyer vow to fight on because they don’t believe he can get a fair trial. They don’t stand much of a chance. Extradition with Canada is pretty automatic outside of death penalty cases. But of course they’re going to try. As it stands now the court has ordered him back (which I believe is the title of your linked article.) ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/22 "2005-11-27T14:20:41Z")
Yes, but the article also says he still has various avenues for appeals and that the process could take as much as 90 days. It’s hardly a done deal, as **Karl Gauss** points out. ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/23 "2005-11-27T16:55:53Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > 36 years _is_ a hell of a long time ago. To put it in perspective, back then I was an immature egg in my then 4 year old mother’s ovaries. > > Yes, 4 decades is plenty of time to change. Let’s also not forget that this guy was 19 when this shooting _allegedly_ took place. > > If this guy has completely changed and become a different person, just what exactly is the point of punishing him? What does it accomplish? An immature egg in your 4 year old mother’s ovaries that didn’t shoot a cop. I’m with the posters who say that we don’t know enough about his guilt or innocence and it is best left to the legal system. However, if he is guilty, I am not prepared to accept he is a “new person”. If he is guilty he needs to start serving his sentence, without the length of time he has gotten away with it taken into account. Don’t want to spend your twilight years rotting away in jail? Simple solution: turn yourself in after the crime, or even better, don’t shoot a cop. Hey, worked for me when I was 19! ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/24 "2005-11-27T17:36:26Z")
> [@](#): > > …by all means hang the bastard,… For what? Attempted murder/assault with a deadly weapon and jumping bail? Hardly hang-worthy crimes. Give us all a break, Mr. Crime and Punishment. Sam ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/25 "2005-11-27T17:52:51Z")
I think the pass the OP was referring to is the fact that a guy wanted by the police – whether or not he’s eventually found to be guilty – could be left alone in Canada for _decades_ without anyone doing anything about it, in spite of repeated requests from some of the people involved. Anyways, you should all watch the movie “The History of Violence” for an interesting take on a similar subject. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/26 "2005-11-27T18:08:04Z")
Reminds me of Sara Jane Olson. The question is, why do we put people in jail? If its punishment or revenge, then he should go (assuming he is guilty), if its to make the streets safer, this guy apparently is as much of a threat as I am, if its to rehabilitate, there doesn’t appear to be a need. You seem to believe in the first. Not everyone does. Personally, I’d rather save my tax dollars than try and jail a guy who I don’t need to be kept safe from. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/27 "2005-11-27T18:30:04Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > The question is, why do we put people in jail? If its punishment or revenge, then he should go (assuming he is guilty), if its to make the streets safer, this guy apparently is as much of a threat as I am, if its to rehabilitate, there doesn’t appear to be a need. There’s another reason: deterrence. We put a criminal in jail even if neither punishment nor rehabilitation would have much effect on him as an example to would-be criminals. Let someone go because there’s no point in punishing or rehabilitating him, and suddenly you’ve created a loophole in the system that others might be inclined to try to use. Consistent application of the law works to deter people from trying to break it. I’m not saying I agree with that in this case, just that it’s another reason for putting people in jail. Frankly, I’m for leaving the guy the hell alone, especially if what happened happened in the 70s. I’m wondering what the statute of limitations is for what he did. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/28 "2005-11-27T19:14:11Z")
Hummmmm in non death penalty cases, the Canadian’s seem willing to accept all our criminals and will fight for them if we want them back…??? Why not just let all thew conviced fellons go to Canada, strip the bad guys of their citizenship and put them on a ‘shoot on sight’ list if they ever return… I thank the Canadians for solving our prision problem… ---
**Author:** ![deevee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@deevee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deevee)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/29 "2005-11-27T19:46:05Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Hummmmm in non death penalty cases, the Canadian’s seem willing to accept all our criminals and will fight for them if we want them back…??? > > Why not just let all thew conviced fellons go to Canada, strip the bad guys of their citizenship and put them on a ‘shoot on sight’ list if they ever return… > > I thank the Canadians for solving our prision problem… We didn’t accept him anymore than your country _accepts_ the illegal immigrants working down there. He is an illegal alien who allegedly commited a crime in the U.S. Once the extradition request was made he was arrested and he now sits in a cell awaiting deportation. Due process is not something that is doled out capriciously. His lawyer would be remiss in not exploiting all legal options to prevent his return. It took something like a decade before we could ship that bastard Charles Ng back and it certainly wasn’t because we were in his corner. As for a shoot on sight list… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/30 "2005-11-27T19:54:56Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Hummmmm in non death penalty cases, the Canadian’s seem willing to accept all our criminals and will fight for them if we want them back…??? > > Why not just let all thew conviced fellons go to Canada, strip the bad guys of their citizenship and put them on a ‘shoot on sight’ list if they ever return… > > I thank the Canadians for solving our prision problem… That’s a two way street there, bud. I’m sure Canadian citizens who come to America have certain rights if Canada requests their extradition. It’s called “due process”. ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/31 "2005-11-27T23:37:20Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > Yes, but the article also says he still has various avenues for appeals and that the process could take as much as 90 days. It’s hardly a done deal, as **Karl Gauss** points out. That’s due process for you. That’s how the legal system works, but not the legal system giving him a pass, or giving any cause for :mad: . I’m wagering it’s a done deal. If not, :mad: when something :mad: worthy happens. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/32 "2005-11-28T00:14:48Z")
I’m slightly confused here. I don’t see Updike saying that the Canadian legal system is giving the accused a pass. It seems to me that Updike is lambasting the man’s supporters. ---
**Author:** ![deevee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@deevee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deevee)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/33 "2005-11-28T01:13:22Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I’m slightly confused here. I don’t see Updike saying that the Canadian legal system is giving the accused a pass. It seems to me that Updike is lambasting the man’s supporters. Yeah I don’t quite get the op’s point either but if he’s pitting the Canadian legal system here’s a quote from the trial judge when he denied bail… > [@](#): > > “The reality is that the applicant faces serious criminal charges in the United States, relating to a violent crime, which had disastrous consequences for the victim. Moreover, on two separate occasions, the applicant jumped bail in the United States in order to avoid trial.” [Cite](http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99213) I also seem to recall him being taken down in the library at gunpoint. I could be mistaken but I’d be surprised he wasn’t. Don’t misunderstand Canadian politeness. ---
**Author:** ![deevee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@deevee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deevee)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/34 "2005-11-28T01:17:00Z")
> [@deevee](#): > > Don’t misunderstand Canadian politeness. I meant misunderestimate :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/35 "2005-11-28T01:18:23Z")
> [@BayleDomon](#): > > There’s another reason: deterrence. We put a criminal in jail even if neither punishment nor rehabilitation would have much effect on him as an example to would-be criminals. Let someone go because there’s no point in punishing or rehabilitating him, and suddenly you’ve created a loophole in the system that others might be inclined to try to use. Consistent application of the law works to deter people from trying to break it. > > I’m not saying I agree with that in this case, just that it’s another reason for putting people in jail. Frankly, I’m for leaving the guy the hell alone, especially if what happened happened in the 70s. I’m wondering what the statute of limitations is for what he did. I was sitting in the car after typing this thinking …“I forgot deterrence.” Thanks. Its been my day for forgetting things I know darn well. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/36 "2005-11-28T02:01:24Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Why not just let all thew conviced fellons go to Canada, strip the bad guys of their citizenship and put them on a ‘shoot on sight’ list if they ever return… To point out the obvious, what if you happen to resemble some criminal on the list ? I’m a fairly average looking guy; I’m sure any number of bad guys look enough like me to confuse any hypothetical bounty hunters/assassins. I’d rather avoid getting shot by mistake, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/37 "2005-11-28T02:10:07Z")
You think you got problems? Being a dead ringer for George Clooney is no day at the beach, let me tell you. ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/38 "2005-11-28T02:14:40Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > Even so, I’m willing to stipulate that he did desert the army, skip bail and flee the country, for the sake of argument. Does that automatically mean he deserves a life sentence? I don’t know either. What are the possible sentences for desertion, skipping bail, becoming a fugitive, and whatever Canadian laws he’s violated? Since he’s 56 years old, I think 30 years in jail would be a good start. If that amounts to a life sentence, so be it. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/39 "2005-11-28T02:15:06Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > There is no evidence in that article that he was in Canada illegally, except for a quote by Knox, the alleged victim. Ditto for the alleged “illegal marriage”. Knox is biased and is not a reliable source of such information. One article cannot provide sufficient evidence that he is, in fact, guilty of anything. I will not form an opinion on his guilt or innocence based on a single source. Again, that is the purpose of our legal system. It’s the victim, not the alleged victim. There’s no doubt the police officer was the victim of a violent crime. Pannell is the “alleged shooter” because there is an allegation he committed the crime but his guilt or innocence has not been determined by a court as of yet. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877/40 "2005-11-28T02:17:16Z")
Also the following things should be accepted as true, because the Chicago Sun-Times just wouldn’t make this stuff up, and the information in question is the type that a newspaper would be able to easily verify: -He was illegally in Canada, because legally speaking he had fled while out on bail -He did live under an assumed name, there doesn’t seem to be any reason to doubt that. -Since he was living under an assumed name and used an assumed name when he was married, then I would say the veracity of his marriage is put into question. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoot-a-cop-get-a-pass-wtf/332877.md?page=3)