# Shooting a fawn. Any "good" reason? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 9, 2014, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-fawn-any-good-reason/706762 "2014-12-09T14:52:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-fawn-any-good-reason/706762/21 "2014-12-09T18:16:41Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Your implication seems to be that during hunting season, the onus is on hikers not to get shot, not on hunters not to shoot hikers. Is that what you mean? I think he just understands that if a hiker gets shot, the hiker has the most to lose - and so it’s in his best interest to consider his actions carefully, up to and including carefully considering whether it’s worth the risk to exercise his right to be in the woods during hunting season. Any hunter that shoots a hiker should be charged with felony reckless endangerment and never be allowed to possess guns again - but that won’t help the hiker, who may be disfigured, paralyzed, or killed in the incident. As an avid motorcyclist, the analogous situation for me would be to think carefully about whether I want to exercise my right to ride mile after mile in another driver’s blind spot. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-fawn-any-good-reason/706762/22 "2014-12-09T19:55:15Z")
The onus is on the hunter, but the anus is on the hiker so he’d do well to take some precautions. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-fawn-any-good-reason/706762/23 "2014-12-09T20:24:58Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > I think he just understands that if a hiker gets shot, the hiker has the most to lose - and so it’s in his best interest to consider his actions carefully, up to and including carefully considering whether it’s worth the risk to exercise his right to be in the woods during hunting season. Any hunter that shoots a hiker should be charged with felony reckless endangerment and never be allowed to possess guns again - but that won’t help the hiker, who may be disfigured, paralyzed, or killed in the incident. > > As an avid motorcyclist, the analogous situation for me would be to think carefully about whether I want to exercise my right to ride mile after mile in another driver’s blind spot. Well, yes, but it’s a little weird to come in and quiz someone who is out burying gut piles–and is therefore presumably pretty familiar with hunters and hunting and the dangers therein. It smacks of a tu quoque: the OP is potentially critical of some hunter, somewhere, and the response is to go looking for something to attack in return. ''Yeah, well, who knows, but why were you even out there?" is an odd response. That may not be at all the intent, but it’s very much how it came across. ---
**Author:** ![missred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/missred/32/14096_2.png) [@missred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missred)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-fawn-any-good-reason/706762/24 "2014-12-09T20:45:46Z")
Here’s another vote for mercy killing not being a dickish move. When I lived in Indiana, during doe season, killing a spotted fawn was legal if you had shot its mother. An animal that young would not survive, especially in the coming winter, without a mother to take care of it. The dickish move was not taking the fawn for meat (although with its chest blown out, there wouldn’t be much there) or to dispose of. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-fawn-any-good-reason/706762/25 "2014-12-09T20:47:38Z")
It hasn’t been mentioned before now, and its a long shot, but it could have been a miss or even a through-and-through. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-fawn-any-good-reason/706762/26 "2014-12-09T20:56:08Z")
> [@missred](#): > > The dickish move was not taking the fawn for meat (although with its chest blown out, there wouldn’t be much there) or to dispose of. Not at all. There is little to no meat in the chest. That is where you want to shoot an animal for a clean, quick kill (hitting the heart and/or lungs), as well as ruining the least amount of meat. The meat in a deer is found primarily in three areas, from most to least: rear quarters/legs, front shoulders/legs, and middle/backbone area (loins and tenderloins). Deer liver is pretty tasty if you like liver, but there is nothing else in the chest area to eat unless you are very gastronomically adventurous. But I agree, if the kill was for humane reasons, or even by mistake, it should have been harvested for the meat. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-fawn-any-good-reason/706762/27 "2014-12-09T21:27:35Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Well, yes, but it’s a little weird to come in and quiz someone who is out burying gut piles–and is therefore presumably pretty familiar with hunters and hunting and the dangers therein. It smacks of a tu quoque: the OP is potentially critical of some hunter, somewhere, and the response is to go looking for something to attack in return. ''Yeah, well, who knows, but why were you even out there?" is an odd response. > > That may not be at all the intent, but it’s very much how it came across. Indeed. I go hiking in the fall, and I’ve not heard of any accidental shootings of hikers in my area (Appalachia) in pretty much forever. Googling “hiker shot by hunter” returns very few results. I am unable to find statistics. Plenty of people go hiking in the woods where I live in the fall, during hunting season. While the risk is non-zero of being shot by a hunter, I think it’s very low. And if it’s not low, it’s not up to hikers to change behavior. If we start getting high numbers–a hiker shot every year in a single state–the problem is with hunters, and regulations need to change on the shooters, not on the victims. ---
**Author:** ![missred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/missred/32/14096_2.png) [@missred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missred)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-fawn-any-good-reason/706762/28 "2014-12-09T21:33:17Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > Not at all. There is little to no meat in the chest. That is where you want to shoot an animal for a clean, quick kill (hitting the heart and/or lungs), as well as ruining the least amount of meat. The meat in a deer is found primarily in three areas, from most to least: rear quarters/legs, front shoulders/legs, and middle/backbone area (loins and tenderloins). Deer liver is pretty tasty if you like liver, but there is nothing else in the chest area to eat unless you are very gastronomically adventurous. > > But I agree, if the kill was for humane reasons, or even by mistake, it should have been harvested for the meat. From what **kayaker** said, the whole chest was blown out. I have dressed and butchered deer and know where the meat is. On an animal that only weighs 15 lbs. or less though, what meat there is is negligable to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-fawn-any-good-reason/706762/29 "2014-12-09T21:41:34Z")
FWIW, I got interested in this question. The best answer I could find to the question, “how often are non-hunters killed in hunting accidents?” comes from [this page](http://californiaoutdoorsqas.com/2009/09/03/are-hunters-a-threat-to-hikers-and-campers/) > [@](#): > > I am very concerned about the safety of hikers/campers like myself being shot in the crossfire! What are the statistics concerning hunting accidents of this nature in California? > > Answer: Public hunting is allowed on most U.S. Forest Service and BLM properties but not within National Parks or California State Parks. In addition, most wild game in California have very regulated seasons. Accidents due to careless hunters as you describe here are rare. > > According to Hunter Education Administrator and Capt. Roy Griffith, California sells nearly 300,000 hunting licenses per year, yet averages only about 16 hunting (firearm-related) injuries per year, with two or fewer resulting in death. In these cases, the injured person is typically a member of the shooter’s hunting party. This year California had its first injury in more than 10 years in which the victim was not a hunter (a farm worker received a minor “peppering” when an individual shot at a dove out of season). So, this is just for California, but in ten years, no nonhunters have been killed in hunting accidents. Wearing blaze orange might still be a good idea, but the risk it avoids is very, very small. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-fawn-any-good-reason/706762/30 "2014-12-09T21:52:34Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > And if it’s not low, it’s not up to hikers to change behavior. If we start getting high numbers–a hiker shot every year in a single state–the problem is with hunters, and regulations need to change on the shooters, not on the victims. Regulations? There aughta be a law! Sorry to jump on you, but “regulations need to change on the shooters, not on the victims” is so out of step with logic and reality I don’t know where to begin. First off, there are hunting regulations regarding being properly identifying your target and being certain of what you are aiming at, and what is behind it. Second, 99.99%+ of hunters are extremely careful and concerned with safety. There is no need for additional regulations regarding not shooting people, either on purpose or by accident. It just simply rarely occurs while hunting. When it does occur, it’s because someone is being lazy, careless or negligent, and regulations aren’t going to fix any of that. Hunter education is all about safety, and that point is driven home and internalized by almost all hunters. Finally, some here seem to take umbrage with even the idea that hikers should be cognizant of hunting seasons and wear some orange during hunting season. I suppose these are the same people you see walking along the highway wearing black clothes. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-fawn-any-good-reason/706762/31 "2014-12-09T21:56:23Z")
A friends home was hit a year or two ago. She was in the kitchen and thought her cat knocked something over. The police were called, recovered a bullet, but unless a suspect and rifle were found, she was told the case would likely never be solved. Years ago a woman was shot/killed by a young bear? hunter… [Here it is.](http://www.wta.org/signpost/hiker-killed-by-hunter-on-sauk-mountain) She was killed by a 14 year old, accompanied by a 16 year old. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-fawn-any-good-reason/706762/32 "2014-12-09T21:58:44Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > Regulations? There aughta be a law! > > Sorry to jump on you, but “regulations need to change on the shooters, not on the victims” is so out of step with logic and reality I don’t know where to begin. Please read what I wrote. It’s not out of step with reality, **because I acknowledge repeatedly the reality that there’s no actual problem**. I said that IF there were a problem, there would need to be a change in hunter behavior, not in hiker behavior; but again, nonhunter deaths from hunters are almost nonexistent. I’m clearly NOT calling for regulations, given reality. > [@kayaker](#): > > A friends home was hit a year or two ago. She was in the kitchen and thought her cat knocked something over. The police were called, recovered a bullet, but unless a suspect and rifle were found, she was told the case would likely never be solved. Did she paint her house blaze orange? Edit: also, that bear-hunter shooting is one of two that I found when Googling hikers shot by hunters. The cases seem to be really, really, really rare. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-fawn-any-good-reason/706762/33 "2014-12-09T22:13:42Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Please read what I wrote. It’s not out of step with reality, **because I acknowledge repeatedly the reality that there’s no actual problem**. I said that IF there were a problem, there would need to be a change in hunter behavior, not in hiker behavior; but again, nonhunter deaths from hunters are almost nonexistent. I’m clearly NOT calling for regulations, given reality. No, you said if there were a problem, there should be a change in **regulations** for hunters. You didn’t say “behavior”. Sure, I’m nitpicking, but the constant call for new policies, rules, regulations and laws irks me. It’s a pet peeve. In the end, we agree that there is no significant problem to address, through either education or regulation. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-fawn-any-good-reason/706762/34 "2014-12-09T22:26:16Z")
Maybe he got all riled up by this. NSFW [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln1ucGoPvWk) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-fawn-any-good-reason/706762/35 "2014-12-09T22:42:09Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I’m curious, why are you wandering around the woods during deer season? Do you wear blaze orange? Are your dogs wearing blaze orange? Are your dogs on a leash? Are you trying to disrupt the hunt? Yes, why are your dogs wandering around, not on a leash, in a open range, with deer hunters around? This is not safe for your dogs. And likely illegal. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-fawn-any-good-reason/706762/36 "2014-12-09T22:46:53Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > We were “wandering around” our property and properties adjacent to ours on which we have permission to “wander”. And it was on Sunday, when hunting deer and most small game is not permitted in PA. > > Disrupting the hunt? On our posted property? Pshaw. > > . Do you find the gut piles on your posted property? Can your dogs get off your property into your neighbors lots? ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-fawn-any-good-reason/706762/37 "2014-12-09T23:04:46Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, why are your dogs wandering around, not on a leash, in a open range, with deer hunters around? This is not safe for your dogs. And likely illegal. See post#9. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-fawn-any-good-reason/706762/38 "2014-12-09T23:15:07Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, why are your dogs wandering around, not on a leash, in a open range, with deer hunters around? This is not safe for your dogs. And likely illegal. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Do you find the gut piles on your posted property? Can your dogs get off your property into your neighbors lots? There is no hunting on Sunday. PA law. My dogs are allowed to enjoy our property off leash, and are welcome on adjoining property owned by our friends/neighbors. So far this year there have been no gut piles on our land, other years that has not been the case. Our neighbors’ lots? We are talking about hundreds of wooded acres. Illegal for our dogs to be off leash. WTF? Cite? Sorry, but I do not believe you understand the situation well enough to give meaningful input. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-fawn-any-good-reason/706762/39 "2014-12-09T23:17:43Z")
I’m going to tell my gf about the possibility of a doe being taken and her fawn being humanely killed. My reason for asking the OP was to find a way for rationalizing the fawn’s death. She was pretty upset and I think it will help her to assume it wasn’t just a dickhead killing a fawn for fun. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-fawn-any-good-reason/706762/40 "2014-12-09T23:33:36Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > There is no hunting on Sunday. PA law. My dogs are allowed to enjoy our property off leash, and are welcome on adjoining property owned by our friends/neighbors. So far this year there have been no gut piles on our land, other years that has not been the case. > > Our neighbors’ lots? We are talking about hundreds of wooded acres. Illegal for our dogs to be off leash. WTF? Cite? > > Sorry, but I do not believe you understand the situation well enough to give meaningful input. OK, so the dogs only wander around off leash on Sundays? You _do_ have copperheads, rattlesnakes, coyotes, bears, wild hogs, and ticks that cause Lyme disease and Rocky Mountain spotted fever. Have you ever seen a dog bit by a Pit Viper? Very nasty. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-fawn-any-good-reason/706762.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-fawn-any-good-reason/706762.md?page=3)