# Shooting a Quran - Is it a crime? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 17, 2008, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-quran-is-it-a-crime/449697 "2008-05-17T23:47:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-quran-is-it-a-crime/449697/21 "2008-05-18T19:36:32Z")
[QUOTE=Loach] For one I don’t think you know what literally means. [/QUOTE] I think he does know what it means. I remember him writing on this issue before: > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I do not like the argument that enough people using a word incorrectly makes it ok. For example, I don’t care how many online dictionaries say that it’s ok to use “literally” as an intensifier. It’s not an intensifier and people who use it that way are subliterate and that’s all there is to it. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=459031&highlight=literally](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=459031&highlight=literally) Edit - I don’t mean this an attack on Diogenes the Cynic. It is probably just a minor slip up. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-quran-is-it-a-crime/449697/22 "2008-05-18T20:40:09Z")
[QUOTE=Omegaman] Well who cares if it’s a crime. You don’t desecrate another human beings holy book. [/QUOTE] Why not? Am I obligated to honor every artifact that some group of humans declares is ‘holy’ or ‘sacred’? Wouldn’t be too many normal object left, at that rate. Charles Manson & his family think that the Beatles song \* Helter Skelter\* was a sacred prophecy foretelling the future. Personally, I consider it one of their more mediocre songs, and often skip over it when listening to the White Album. So am I committing a crime by dishonoring it that way? Ridiculous! ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-quran-is-it-a-crime/449697/23 "2008-05-18T20:56:52Z")
[QUOTE=t-bonham@scc.net] Why not? Am I obligated to honor every artifact that some group of humans declares is ‘holy’ or ‘sacred’? Wouldn’t be too many normal object left, at that rate. Charles Manson & his family think that the Beatles song \* Helter Skelter\* was a sacred prophecy foretelling the future. Personally, I consider it one of their more mediocre songs, and often skip over it when listening to the White Album. So am I committing a crime by dishonoring it that way? Ridiculous! [/QUOTE] [Moderating] **Omegaman** was just told not to make comments like the one you are responding to. There’s no need to try to debate it with him. Please stick to the factual aspects of this question. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-quran-is-it-a-crime/449697/24 "2008-05-18T22:53:56Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] I think he does know what it means. I remember him writing on this issue before: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=459031&highlight=literally](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=459031&highlight=literally) Edit - I don’t mean this an attack on Diogenes the Cynic. It is probably just a minor slip up. [/QUOTE] There was no slip up. I meant “literally” in the dictionary sense. The civilian “contractors” (i.e. mercenaries) were quite literally [given license](http://i.abcnews.com/Politics/Story?id=3795318&page=2) to do anything they wanted without the possibility of prosecution or consequences. If anybody wants to try to seriously argue that there’s any semantic difference between “license” and “immunity,” they can have it, but I don’t expect it to be very convincing. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-quran-is-it-a-crime/449697/25 "2008-05-18T23:08:52Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] There was no slip up. I meant “literally” in the dictionary sense. The civilian “contractors” (i.e. mercenaries) were quite literally [given license](http://i.abcnews.com/Politics/Story?id=3795318&page=2) to do anything they wanted without the possibility of prosecution or consequences. If anybody wants to try to seriously argue that there’s any semantic difference between “license” and “immunity,” they can have it, but I don’t expect it to be very convincing. [/QUOTE] There is a difference between being given license and being given a license. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-quran-is-it-a-crime/449697/26 "2008-05-18T23:23:56Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] There is a difference between being given license and being given a license. [/QUOTE] No there isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-quran-is-it-a-crime/449697/27 "2008-05-19T00:02:54Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] No there isn’t. [/QUOTE] If we say “a,” we have to be referring to a specific thing unless we modify the thing. In this case, there is no specific permission being given. The government just created a situation where tacit permission has been given, but there is no specific license of permission. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-quran-is-it-a-crime/449697/28 "2008-05-19T00:03:33Z")
[QUOTE=Gfactor] And you need to not shit threads. Thanks. Gfactor General Questions Moderator [/QUOTE] My apologies. It won’t happen again. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-quran-is-it-a-crime/449697/29 "2008-05-19T00:16:42Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] If we say “a,” we have to be referring to a specific thing unless we modify the thing. In this case, there is no specific permission being given. The government just created a situation where tacit permission has been given, but there is no specific license of permission. [/QUOTE] In my opinion, this is the purest sophistry. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-quran-is-it-a-crime/449697/30 "2008-05-19T00:26:05Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] In my opinion, this is the purest sophistry. [/QUOTE] I have always considered Thrasymachus to be a personal hero. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-quran-is-it-a-crime/449697/31 "2008-05-19T01:05:14Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] In my opinion, this is the purest sophistry. [/QUOTE] And the point is moot since the law changed several years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Khampelf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Khampelf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khampelf)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-quran-is-it-a-crime/449697/32 "2008-05-19T01:18:05Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] In my opinion, this is the purest sophistry. [/QUOTE] As an American and a free soul, I have license to offend, create art, and make an ass of myself in public. As a Californian, I have a license to drive automobiles on public highways. The first case speaks to a general freedom to, the second case specific permission granted by a government agency. Yeah, we better cut that sophistry will some illusion and cynicism, someone might overdose. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-quran-is-it-a-crime/449697/33 "2008-05-19T01:24:29Z")
[QUOTE=Loach] And the point is moot since the law changed several years ago. [/QUOTE] Cite? The immunity was still in effect as recently as last October. When did it change? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-quran-is-it-a-crime/449697/34 "2008-05-19T01:25:22Z")
I did. Upthread. FY2007 which means Oct 06. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-quran-is-it-a-crime/449697/35 "2008-05-19T01:26:35Z")
[QUOTE=The Sonoran Lizard King] As an American and a free soul, I have license to offend, create art, and make an ass of myself in public. As a Californian, I have a license to drive automobiles on public highways. The first case speaks to a general freedom to, the second case specific permission granted by a government agency. [/QUOTE] Cite for the latter as the exclusive definition of “license” (not that I recognize a significant difference beetween “freedom” and “permission”)? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-quran-is-it-a-crime/449697/36 "2008-05-19T01:29:23Z")
[QUOTE=Loach] I did. Upthread. FY2007 which means Oct 06. [/QUOTE] 2007 was not “several years ago.” ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-quran-is-it-a-crime/449697/37 "2008-05-19T01:30:09Z")
Sorry went back and reread. It was for FY2007 which begins in October 2006 but the change went into effect 1 Jan 2007. > [@](#): > > The immunity was still in effect as recently as last October That is incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-quran-is-it-a-crime/449697/38 "2008-05-19T01:33:37Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] 2007 was not “several years ago.” [/QUOTE] We are four months from FY 2009. I thought it went into effect at the beginning of FY 2007 which is actually in 2006. Thats why I said several. I’ll change it to a couple of years if that will make you happy. ---
**Author:** ![Khampelf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Khampelf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khampelf)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-quran-is-it-a-crime/449697/39 "2008-05-19T01:33:47Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Cite for the latter as the exclusive definition of “license” (not that I recognize a significant difference beetween “freedom” and “permission”)? [/QUOTE] I’m sure that I don’t need to cite the dictionary that these are both definitions of ‘License’. I’m speaking to the difference between ‘license to’ and ‘a licensse to’. The definate article connotates a specific, rather than the general sense. But If you’re a strict denotation kind of guy, or just feeling stubborn, this argument will fall on deaf ears, and I beg you disregard it. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-quran-is-it-a-crime/449697/40 "2008-05-19T01:47:50Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] How can this be a valid rule? It is so vague as to cover anything. [/QUOTE] The limits of such rules are generally well established in legal precedent, and as has been pointed out, “Conduct unbecoming” rules generally are viewed in light of standing and general orders. A soldier posted to Iraq is almost certainly under orders to be appropriately respectful of Iraqis and the Islamic faith, and has doubtlessly been ordered to conduct her/himself in a manner that will command respect. By doing something this stupid, the soldier in question has doubtlessly violated several standing orders and has disgraced himself and brought the United States Army into disrepute in a quite reckless manner. He’s not going to be shot or anything, but he’ll be punished appropriately. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-quran-is-it-a-crime/449697.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-a-quran-is-it-a-crime/449697.md?page=3)