# Shooting at mosque in Quebec City **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 30, 2017, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-mosque-in-quebec-city/778562 "2017-01-30T03:11:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Whiskey\_Dickens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9fc348/32.png) [@Whiskey\_Dickens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whiskey_Dickens)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-mosque-in-quebec-city/778562/21 "2017-01-30T16:12:18Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > For all we know this was a result of a dispute among members of the prayer group. There’s no need to rush to judgment. > [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > I can’t express how much I hope I am wrong and you are right. What’s a person to do with such hate? How do you fight this? I’m at a loss. ☹ This is somehow better if it’s Muslims killing Muslims? 😕 Am I correct with the following?: Muslims doing the killing = Fits into your worldview and is easy to explain to yourself. Non-Muslims doing the killing = Scary and confusing. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-mosque-in-quebec-city/778562/22 "2017-01-30T16:12:53Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > To be fair to Trudeau his quote is not entirely wrong. Sure, it can be interpreted as mealy-mouthed, but these shootings can probably be labelled a terrorist attack. Nothing in the wording of Trudeau’s statement is entirely inconsistent with what _may_ be an attack on Muslims by fellow Muslims. Fairly inconsistent, as an attack on muslims by muslims is _not_ an attack on the Muslim Faith. Just fellow religious killing other members of their religion, which is almost a defining characteristic of [young] religions. And ‘young’ because Islam is about 600 years younger than christianity, and has not yet dwindled into vague benevolence and sweet reason. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-mosque-in-quebec-city/778562/23 "2017-01-30T16:18:19Z")
A internal dispute or a violent crime (like armed robbery) that leads to killing is murder. Random killing because you dislike the victim’s religion,sexual orientation, or ethnicity is a despicable hate crime. It’s usually prosecuted under special laws and penalties. ---
**Author:** ![Whiskey\_Dickens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9fc348/32.png) [@Whiskey\_Dickens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whiskey_Dickens)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-mosque-in-quebec-city/778562/24 "2017-01-30T16:38:33Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > A internal dispute or a violent crime (like armed robbery) that leads to killing is murder. > > Random killing because you dislike the victim’s religion,sexual orientation, or ethnicity is a despicable hate crime. It’s usually prosecuted under special laws and penalties. This was automatic weapons fire at a religious center (in Canada where automatic weapons are prohibited). Nothing about this says robbery or personal internal dispute. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-mosque-in-quebec-city/778562/25 "2017-01-30T16:50:56Z")
> [@Whiskey\_Dickens](#): > > This is somehow better if it’s Muslims killing Muslims? 😕 > Am I correct with the following?: > > Muslims doing the killing = Fits into your worldview and is easy to explain to yourself. > > Non-Muslims doing the killing = Scary and confusing. Fortunately, mosques in the West have rarely been the targets of murderous violence, so it’s largely new if the motive was anti-Muslim, or intra-Muslim but resulting in such a horrific incident, in the West. And new forms of organized violence are a logical cause for greater concern, that doesn’t depend on ‘worldview’. It’s reported one of the shooters is of Moroccan origin with a Muslim name so it doesn’t seem likely it’s strictly ‘anti-Muslim by non-Muslims’ or ‘Christian group’. ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-mosque-in-quebec-city/778562/26 "2017-01-30T16:51:09Z")
> [@Whiskey\_Dickens](#): > > This is somehow better if it’s Muslims killing Muslims? 😕 > **Am I correct with the following?:** > > Muslims doing the killing = Fits into your worldview and is easy to explain to yourself. > > Non-Muslims doing the killing = Scary and confusing. “Fits into my worldview”?? the fuck? You know nothing about me or what I think about Muslims and no, Muslims killing Muslims does not “fit into my worldview” but hey, thanks for automatically thinking the worst about people you don’t know! An internal dispute in a group of people that turns violent and people die is bad enough. A hateful stranger randomly killing people because of their race, religion, gender or orientation is even worse. Did I use small enough words? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-mosque-in-quebec-city/778562/27 "2017-01-30T16:54:58Z")
> [@Whiskey\_Dickens](#): > > This was automatic weapons fire at a religious center (in Canada where automatic weapons are prohibited). Nothing about this says robbery or personal internal dispute. A question was asked and I was answering it. A lethal dispute between Muslims is murder. It’s a tragedy. Murder is always a horrific and violent crime. It’s probably not a hate crime. Hate crimes are narrowly defined by law. But we don’t know enough details to really know yet. That decision will be made by the prosecutor. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-mosque-in-quebec-city/778562/28 "2017-01-30T16:57:23Z")
> [@Whiskey\_Dickens](#): > > This is somehow better if it’s Muslims killing Muslims? 😕 > Am I correct with the following?: > > Muslims doing the killing = Fits into your worldview and is easy to explain to yourself. > > Non-Muslims doing the killing = Scary and confusing. I read that it would be slightly more comforting if there was some sort of history of conflict between those shot/targeted and the shooters - as opposed to just a mass shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Whiskey\_Dickens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9fc348/32.png) [@Whiskey\_Dickens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whiskey_Dickens)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-mosque-in-quebec-city/778562/29 "2017-01-30T17:05:44Z")
> [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > “Fits into my worldview”?? the fuck? You know nothing about me or what I think about Muslims and no, Muslims killing Muslims does not “fit into my worldview” but hey, thanks for automatically thinking the worst about people you don’t know! > > An internal dispute in a group of people that turns violent and people die is bad enough. A hateful stranger randomly killing people because of their race, religion, gender or orientation is even worse. > > Did I use small enough words? Thanks for going off the deep end. Was just asking a question about your thoughts. So why is it better to have Muslims killing each other than the alternative? ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-mosque-in-quebec-city/778562/30 "2017-01-30T17:29:00Z")
According to [this](https://twitter.com/sureteduquebec/status/826114232630571011), one of these people arrested is witness and the other is a suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-mosque-in-quebec-city/778562/31 "2017-01-30T17:29:57Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > Fairly inconsistent, as an attack on muslims by muslims is _not_ an attack on the Muslim Faith. > > Just fellow religious killing other members of their religion, which is almost a defining characteristic of [young] religions. > And ‘young’ because Islam is about 600 years younger than christianity, and has not yet dwindled into vague benevolence and sweet reason. Technically it can still be construed as an attack on the Muslim faith. It just happened to be an attack by fellow Muslims on the Muslim faith. Trudeau is not dumb. Im fairly confident he chose his words carefully. I note he did not say something like “this attack by Christians on Muslims is a disgrace” or anything along those lines. I see Trudeau as graduating from the same Twitter academy as Donald Trump; deliberately using certain wording that can be interpreted in a variety of ways. edit: I assume Trudeau’s comments were made at a time when the identity of the attackers were not known. His comment/tweet was suitable(and typically Trudeau-esque) for most eventualities. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-mosque-in-quebec-city/778562/32 "2017-01-30T17:38:55Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > As soon as I heard the story, I suspected the shooters were Muslims themselves. CBC reports now say the shooters were screaming “Allahu akbar” (wow, who could ever have predicted that? Besides, you know, EVERYONE). > > So, don’t you feel silly now for racing to conclude that North America is filled with violent Christians chomping at the bit to kill foreigners for no reason? Here’s a nice photo of the white Christian killer, [Alexandre Bissonnette .](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/quebec-city-mosque-shooting/article33822092/) > [@](#): > > Police say only one suspect in deadly Quebec City mosque attack Don’t you feel like an idiot now for racing to conclude that since this was terrorism, it must have been perpetrated by a Muslim? Not to worry though - the conspiracy theorists will be out in full force to peddle their lies - you will have lots to grasp onto soon. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-mosque-in-quebec-city/778562/33 "2017-01-30T17:44:25Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Here’s a nice photo of the white Christian killer, [Alexandre Bissonnette .](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/quebec-city-mosque-shooting/article33822092/) White certainly. I have seen conflicting accounts on religion. And this [screenshot](https://twitter.com/Lompemann/status/826097096419835904) of his facebook page before it was taken down. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-mosque-in-quebec-city/778562/34 "2017-01-30T17:55:41Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > White certainly. I have seen conflicting accounts on religion. > > And this [screenshot](https://twitter.com/Lompemann/status/826097096419835904) of his facebook page before it was taken down. He makes white people look tanned. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-mosque-in-quebec-city/778562/35 "2017-01-30T17:56:31Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > As soon as I heard the story, I suspected the shooters were Muslims themselves. CBC reports now say the shooters were screaming “Allahu akbar” (wow, who could ever have predicted that? Besides, you know, EVERYONE). > > So, don’t you feel silly now for racing to conclude that North America is filled with violent Christians chomping at the bit to kill foreigners for no reason? Now dont you feel silly for automatically assuming the shooter(s) were Muslim? ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-mosque-in-quebec-city/778562/36 "2017-01-30T18:01:40Z")
ITT, people jump to conclusions while condemning others for jumping to conclusions. Seriously, can we at least wait for the facts to come in before pointing fingers and making partisan jabs? No? Alright then, I’ll see myself out. ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-mosque-in-quebec-city/778562/37 "2017-01-30T18:06:34Z")
> [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > An internal dispute in a group of people that turns violent and people die is bad enough. A hateful stranger randomly killing people because of their race, religion, gender or orientation is even worse. > > Did I use small enough words? > [@Whiskey\_Dickens](#): > > Thanks for going off the deep end. Was just asking a question about your thoughts. > > So why is it better to have Muslims killing each other than the alternative? Apparently I didn’t use small enough words. I don’t know how I can say it in simpler terms than: **“An internal dispute in a group of people that turns violent and people die is bad enough. A hateful stranger randomly killing people because of their race, religion, gender or orientation is even worse.”** Sorry if you can’t understand that but that is still my reply. I have to believe that you do, indeed, understand exactly what I’m saying but for some reason you want to make yourself feel better by continuing to accuse strangers of having some bizarre “worldview” where Muslims killing Muslims is A-OK. I’m done with you. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-mosque-in-quebec-city/778562/38 "2017-01-30T18:13:39Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > ITT, people jump to conclusions while condemning others for jumping to conclusions. > > Seriously, can we at least wait for the facts to come in before pointing fingers and making partisan jabs? No? Alright then, I’ll see myself out. That was my (rather badly made) point. I’ll join you on the way out… ---
**Author:** ![Whiskey\_Dickens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9fc348/32.png) [@Whiskey\_Dickens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whiskey_Dickens)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-mosque-in-quebec-city/778562/39 "2017-01-30T18:35:07Z")
> [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > I’m done with you. I’m devastated. Truly. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-mosque-in-quebec-city/778562/40 "2017-01-30T19:49:50Z")
[https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/30/world/canada/quebec-mosque-shooting.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/30/world/canada/quebec-mosque-shooting.html) > [@](#): > > The authorities initially said that there had been two suspects, but Quebec’s provincial police agency said on Monday that only one man was a suspect and that another man — also arrested on Sunday evening — was a witness. Court officials in Quebec identified the two men arrested as Alexandre Bissonnette, 27, and Mohamed el Khadir, who was said to be in his late 20s or early 30s. > > It was not immediately clear which man was the suspect and which was the witness, though the Reuters news agency reported that Mr. Bissonnette was the man under suspicion. I’m making an educated guess that Reuters is right. Looking at the two names, which one is most likely to have been present in the Mosque as a bystander? Bissonette or el Khadir? And “Allahu akbar” simply means “God is great”. Maybe it wasn’t the shooter or shooters who shouted it. Maybe the people who shouted it were worshipers who suddenly were confronting a crazy gunman and thought they were about to die. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-mosque-in-quebec-city/778562.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-mosque-in-quebec-city/778562.md?page=3)