# Shooting at Santa Fe, Texas High School **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 18, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-santa-fe-texas-high-school/814400 "2018-05-18T15:04:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Grumbacher\_Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Grumbacher\_Red](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumbacher_Red)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-santa-fe-texas-high-school/814400/81 "2018-05-21T12:55:59Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > The latest thing I’m hearing is that the first person he shot (and killed) was a girl who had repeated spurned his increasingly aggressive advances, which makes me think he was a junior version of an incel; in other words, “She wouldn’t go out with me, so I’ll just kill her and maybe take a bunch of other people out with her.” > > Another thing I heard was that he was singing “Another One Bites The Dust” while he did this. > > We had a shooting averted in my area early last week (I may have already mentioned it here) and it’s since been reported that not only did the guns belong to the 19-year-old shooter’s mother, but that she shouldn’t have had them in the first place because she’s a convicted felon. :eek: Lots of people are going to get in trouble over this, that’s for sure. Gosh, these shootings just seem to have so many roots sprouting out in all directions. I have been reluctant to weigh in because I am not an expert on numbers and data as so many of you are, but I do want to educate myself more in those areas. I am just speaking from the heart and the gut, so please don’t chew me up and spit me out. I see that Oliver North said that violent video games and medications are causes. I don’t think he is wrong unless he is saying that those things are the only cause. They are certainly contributing factors. I think kids today have a lot less impulse control, coping skills and problem solving abilities. There is more bullying that is of a harsher nature than in the past. There are fewer intact, functioning families. Our society is full of people who don’t trust each other and cannot take any form of rejection. When you put all that together with social media and more available guns, you get this volatile environment that has not been seen ever before in American society, and there is no putting this Genie back in the bottle. It is here and we have to deal with it, and people need to accept that we may have to deal with it in ways that have never been done before, like taking steps to reduce the types and numbers of guns kids can get their hands on. What’s making these kids feel so dead inside that they have to behave this way? ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-santa-fe-texas-high-school/814400/82 "2018-05-21T13:14:24Z")
> [@Grumbacher\_Red](#): > > I see that Oliver North said that violent video games and medications are causes. He is not an expert in murder or mental illness. Why should anyone listen to him about these school shootings as if he was some sort of authority on the issue? He is not an authority on the issue. His only paid function is to deflect the blame away from his masters, the gun manufacturers. The less heard from him the better. ---
**Author:** ![Grumbacher\_Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Grumbacher\_Red](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumbacher_Red)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-santa-fe-texas-high-school/814400/83 "2018-05-21T13:45:15Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > He is not an expert in murder or mental illness. Why should anyone listen to him about these school shootings as if he was some sort of authority on the issue? He is not an authority on the issue. His only paid function is to deflect the blame away from his masters, the gun manufacturers. The less heard from him the better. Well I wasn’t really bringing him up as an expert, just that what he said isn’t totally wrong and not all that different from what anybody else might say. I try to listen to a variety of opinions, because nobody really has much more than that right now. Just thought it was worth throwing out there as a point of discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-santa-fe-texas-high-school/814400/84 "2018-05-21T13:58:38Z")
> [@Grumbacher\_Red](#): > > I see that Oliver North said that violent video games and medications are causes. I don’t think he is wrong unless he is saying that those things are the only cause. They are certainly contributing factors. Cite? Real violence has been steadily dropping since violent video games burst onto the scene. Those games are also popular in lots of countries with very little gun violence. Just because it seems logical that something should be a contributing factor doesn’t mean it actually is. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-santa-fe-texas-high-school/814400/85 "2018-05-21T14:04:55Z")
> [@Grumbacher\_Red](#): > > Well I wasn’t really bringing him up as an expert, just that what he said isn’t totally wrong and not all that different from what anybody else might say. I try to listen to a variety of opinions, because nobody really has much more than that right now. Just thought it was worth throwing out there as a point of discussion. OK, I appreciate the spirit of your post. But if he’s not an expert why mention him? Better just forget him right. This is what history has taught us - trust the experts. When you want to build a house do you trust the experts or just listen to a variety of opinions? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-santa-fe-texas-high-school/814400/86 "2018-05-21T14:06:14Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Sounds like the 60s and 70s were the formative stages that eventually resulted in all the things that are happening now. See, where I live guns were restricted then and are even more restricted now. I didn’t learn to shoot in grade school, or at any other school. Neither did anyone I know. Anyone bringing a knife to school would have been expelled or at least suspended. Schools didn’t have gun clubs. Anyone bringing a gun to school would not only have been expelled, but arrested. > > And today we don’t have regular mass shootings, or in fact really all that much of any other kind of gun violence. Maybe it’s all a coincidence? Yeah, but aren’t you cowering in fear in your homes, afraid to go outside because roving gangs of criminals with guns will attack, rob, rape, and murder you because you lack semi-automatic rifles for protection? ---
**Author:** ![Grumbacher\_Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Grumbacher\_Red](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumbacher_Red)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-santa-fe-texas-high-school/814400/87 "2018-05-21T14:08:22Z")
[https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjl8ouV\_JbbAhVGmK0KHexdASwQFgg8MAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fnews%2Fmorning-mix%2Fwp%2F2018%2F05%2F21%2Foliver-north-blames-school-shootings-on-culture-of-violence-he-was-a-pitchman-for-a-violent-video-game%2F&usg=AOvVaw31p-tUHFKk\_Pok7OLgUGCI](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjl8ouV_JbbAhVGmK0KHexdASwQFgg8MAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fnews%2Fmorning-mix%2Fwp%2F2018%2F05%2F21%2Foliver-north-blames-school-shootings-on-culture-of-violence-he-was-a-pitchman-for-a-violent-video-game%2F&usg=AOvVaw31p-tUHFKk_Pok7OLgUGCI) Here’s the Washington Post. Sorry I don’t know how to rename and shorten links. And sorry for bringing up Oliver North. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-santa-fe-texas-high-school/814400/88 "2018-05-21T14:43:06Z")
> [@Grumbacher\_Red](#): > > And sorry for bringing up Oliver North. If you’re his dad, I’ll take it 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Grumbacher\_Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Grumbacher\_Red](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumbacher_Red)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-santa-fe-texas-high-school/814400/89 "2018-05-21T14:54:43Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > If you’re his dad, I’ll take it 😛 Well, I guess in that case I don’t need to apologize because I would have to be his mother, and that is impossible because he is older than me. 🙂 The story was being reported in multiple places with various slants and it was just something that caught my attention. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-santa-fe-texas-high-school/814400/90 "2018-05-21T17:55:42Z")
> [@Grumbacher\_Red](#): > > [https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjl8ouV\_JbbAhVGmK0KHexdASwQFgg8MAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fnews%2Fmorning-mix%2Fwp%2F2018%2F05%2F21%2Foliver-north-blames-school-shootings-on-culture-of-violence-he-was-a-pitchman-for-a-violent-video-game%2F&usg=AOvVaw31p-tUHFKk\_Pok7OLgUGCI](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjl8ouV_JbbAhVGmK0KHexdASwQFgg8MAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fnews%2Fmorning-mix%2Fwp%2F2018%2F05%2F21%2Foliver-north-blames-school-shootings-on-culture-of-violence-he-was-a-pitchman-for-a-violent-video-game%2F&usg=AOvVaw31p-tUHFKk_Pok7OLgUGCI) > > Here’s the Washington Post. Sorry I don’t know how to rename and shorten links. And sorry for bringing up Oliver North. So Ollie is a hypocrite. No surprise there. Given the millions of kids who play violent video games, and the very few shooters, there can’t be that much of a causal link. Maybe every shooter has played, but they’ve also probably eaten hamburgers. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-santa-fe-texas-high-school/814400/91 "2018-05-21T18:39:43Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > So Ollie is a hypocrite. No surprise there. > Given the millions of kids who play violent video games, and the very few shooters, there can’t be that much of a causal link. Maybe every shooter has played, but they’ve also probably eaten hamburgers. Okay, but millions of people own guns and very few of them are school shooters, yet most people agree guns are a problem in that regard. Millions of men are misogynist assholes but very few commit mass murder, and yet I think it very clear there is a connection between misogyny and murder, Santa Fe TX being the latest sad example. I agree video games have nothing to do with this, but your reasoning here isn’t especially logical. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-santa-fe-texas-high-school/814400/92 "2018-05-21T19:34:11Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Yeah, but aren’t you cowering in fear in your homes, afraid to go outside because roving gangs of criminals with guns will attack, rob, rape, and murder you because you lack semi-automatic rifles for protection? That’s true. I’m cowering in my basement right now, armed only with a pointed stick, the only weapon that our lefty government allows us to have. And it’s not even allowed to be very sharp. 😃 The serious point of the matter is that when everybody and his dog is armed to the teeth, what you have is not a society in which individuals are more protected and safer. What you have is something more akin to a war zone. This is the incontrovertible truth that the statistics bear out when comparing the US with any other developed country in the civilized world. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-santa-fe-texas-high-school/814400/93 "2018-05-21T21:59:35Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > The serious point of the matter is that when everybody and his dog is armed to the teeth, what you have is not a society in which individuals are more protected and safer. What you have is something more akin to a war zone. This is the incontrovertible truth that the statistics bear out when comparing the US with any other developed country in the civilized world. And also when compared to US military combatants killed in military conflicts. [Do U.S. Gun Deaths Since 1968 Outnumber Deaths in All American Wars? | Snopes.com](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/gun-deaths-wars/) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-santa-fe-texas-high-school/814400/94 "2018-05-21T22:16:52Z")
And another take on it: “More children have been killed by guns since Sandy Hook than US soldiers since 9/11” > **[Guns Killed More Kids Since Sandy Hook Than Soldiers](https://www.newsweek.com/gun-violence-children-killed-sandy-hook-military-soldiers-war-terror-911-848602)** > > The number of children killed by gunfire in the United States since the 2012 mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School is greater than the total of U.S. soldiers killed in overseas combat since 9/11, according to a Department of Defense report. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-santa-fe-texas-high-school/814400/95 "2018-05-21T23:39:31Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > The serious point of the matter is that when everybody and his dog is armed to the teeth, what you have is not a society in which individuals are more protected and safer. What you have is something more akin to a war zone. This is the incontrovertible truth that the statistics bear out when comparing the US with any other developed country in the civilized world. There are parts of the world (areas of South Africa and Mexico are two that immediately come to mind) where it really is like this, and I can’t imagine any sane American wanting to emulate that kind of thing. Some ammosexuals seem to think that’s pretty great - until THEIR rights are infringed upon, that is. And I’m seeing meme after meme about how this wouldn’t happen if we had prayer in schools (their kind of prayer, of course) and parents could “correct” (i.e. beat or otherwise torture) their children. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-santa-fe-texas-high-school/814400/96 "2018-05-22T00:55:40Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Okay, but millions of people own guns and very few of them are school shooters, yet most people agree guns are a problem in that regard. Millions of men are misogynist assholes but very few commit mass murder, and yet I think it very clear there is a connection between misogyny and murder, Santa Fe TX being the latest sad example. > > I agree video games have nothing to do with this, but your reasoning here isn’t especially logical. I’m not claiming that the act of owning a gun causes someone to be a shooter. The availability of guns, however, enables those with the tendency towards being a shooter to carry out their goal. A gun safe in a house with a kid is the same kind of thing. A gun in the house is not going to make the kid want to shoot it, but since the kid is at risk for shooting the gun for fun, not knowing any better, you keep it away from him. The purpose of background checks is to try to keep guns out of the hands of people who are at risk of using the guns for harm. You might also pick up behavioral warning signs like someone buying a ton of ammunition and a bunch of heavy weapons all of a sudden. Data mining could be used to detect risky people - but the NRA doesn’t want us to have the data. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-santa-fe-texas-high-school/814400/97 "2018-05-22T00:59:46Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Some ammosexuals seem to think that’s pretty great - until THEIR rights are infringed upon, that is. > > And I’m seeing meme after meme about how this wouldn’t happen if we had prayer in schools (their kind of prayer, of course) and parents could “correct” (i.e. beat or otherwise torture) their children. Ammosexuals - I’m so stealing that. The funny thing is that Santa Fe did have prayer in the school, led by students. The shooter went to church. I don’t know what more they want except maybe to brainwash every kid to believe just as they do. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-santa-fe-texas-high-school/814400/98 "2018-05-22T16:25:18Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > This problem predates television. What makes it distinctive today is the firepower. This mass murder was committed using a pump shotgun and a .38 Special revolver, two quite basic gun types that have been largely unchanged over the past 100 years. And two of the most ubiquitous firearms anywhere in the world. What firepower are you referring to? ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-santa-fe-texas-high-school/814400/99 "2018-05-22T16:27:51Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > y’know, I’m really fucking sick of “responsible” gun owners. There is responsible and “responsible”. If the firearm is secured, then the owner is responsible. This whole horseshit about “It was ““secured”” but a determined high schooler got it so I have not responsibility beyond my personal guilt” fucking meme. > > It is absolute. By definition, responsible gun owners have a firearm that no one else can access, if someone else got said firearm then it was not secure/responsible. Full stop and no free pass. So, is the truck rental company responsible for the guy who drove a van along the sidewalk, killing a bunch of people? I think it’s absolutely illogical and immoral to hold one person responsible for the acts of another. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-santa-fe-texas-high-school/814400/100 "2018-05-22T16:28:58Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > He is not an expert in murder or mental illness. Why should anyone listen to him about these school shootings as if he was some sort of authority on the issue? He is not an authority on the issue. Unlike all of the gun experts here on the Straight Dope, I suppose. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-santa-fe-texas-high-school/814400.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-santa-fe-texas-high-school/814400.md?page=6)