# Shooting at the center of mass (bin Laden related) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 4, 2011, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-the-center-of-mass-bin-laden-related/580685 "2011-05-04T13:20:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CapnPitt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/edb3f5/32.png) [@CapnPitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CapnPitt)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-the-center-of-mass-bin-laden-related/580685/1 "2011-05-04T13:20:06Z")
First, let me clarify that I believe U.S. forces shot and killed bin Laden. Second, I’ve only ever shot at clay pigeons when I was 14, so I have extremely limited knowledge of shooting. There are conflicting reports (and we’ll likely never know how it actually went down), but why would the SEALs have shot bin Laden in the head twice? I thought standard procedure was to shoot at the center of mass to ensure a hopefully debilitating injury. Is that the case? Obviously, some reports say chest and head were hit, so that might have happened too. Or perhaps they didn’t have a shot at his body (and I imagine these SEALs are way up at the top of the scale for expert marksman with any weapon). Anyhow, not talking conspiracy theory here, just looking for the standard military/police practice for shooting at a human target. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-the-center-of-mass-bin-laden-related/580685/2 "2011-05-04T13:21:57Z")
It’s a good way to make sure the fucker’s dead. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-the-center-of-mass-bin-laden-related/580685/3 "2011-05-04T13:25:57Z")
[The headshot’s the only true stopper!](http://media.photobucket.com/image/recent/Sutec/Bad%2520Taste/Derek.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![CapnPitt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/edb3f5/32.png) [@CapnPitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CapnPitt)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-the-center-of-mass-bin-laden-related/580685/4 "2011-05-04T13:45:47Z")
> [@Patch](#): > > It’s a good way to make sure the fucker’s dead. Well, yeah, but that really isn’t the question. What’s SOP? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-the-center-of-mass-bin-laden-related/580685/5 "2011-05-04T13:52:58Z")
SEALs probably do not follow SOP, because they are better shooters than the average police or military. So, if they shoot for the head of a person a few metres away, they are likely to hit the head and immediately kill the person. Your average cop or grunt won’t be so sure, so they are told to aim for the larger target. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-the-center-of-mass-bin-laden-related/580685/6 "2011-05-04T14:03:10Z")
> [@CapnPitt](#): > > I thought standard procedure was to shoot at the center of mass to ensure a hopefully debilitating injury. Is that the case? I would think that a shot to the chest area would be a hopefully debilitating injury NOT because it is the center of mass, but because there are many critical organs (like the heart and lungs) in a small area. That said, I think **Giles** has answered the OP. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-the-center-of-mass-bin-laden-related/580685/7 "2011-05-04T14:04:53Z")
Double tap to the head makes sure that they are dead. From the range they were shooting from, SEALs don’t miss. Besides, center of mass shots can be blocked by armor, which gives the Bad Guy time to do nefarious things. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-the-center-of-mass-bin-laden-related/580685/8 "2011-05-04T14:05:02Z")
I was a little surprised when I heard this as well, but my (admittedly uninformed) feeling was that it was possible that he had on Body Armor or something else (I keep hearing about a “Suicide Vest”) that they didn’t want to hit, so they went for a head shot to be certain of a kill and to avoid unwanted circumstances. As noted above, they are expert at this, and were at close range, which suggests they didn’t need to go for a trunk shot to be certain. ---
**Author:** ![butler1850](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@butler1850](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butler1850)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-the-center-of-mass-bin-laden-related/580685/9 "2011-05-04T14:05:58Z")
The average shooter should shoot for center of mass. The expert special forces shooter, who is trying to deactivate targets as fast, and (to himself/team) as safely as possible, at short distance, goes for the unprotected and instant kill of the headshot. It has the added benefit of reducing the possibility of a target (if armed) having a muscle twitch which pulls the trigger, or a conscious effort to pull the trigger as the target goes down. At “inside distances, (probably on the order of a few yards)” with an MP5 with the sighting system they use, it wouldn’t be a difficult shot. At longer distances, one would go for the center-mass shot. ---
**Author:** ![CapnPitt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/edb3f5/32.png) [@CapnPitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CapnPitt)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-the-center-of-mass-bin-laden-related/580685/10 "2011-05-04T14:08:32Z")
Ok, thanks. That clarifies things. Additionally, I don’t know why I never thought about the sighting system. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-the-center-of-mass-bin-laden-related/580685/11 "2011-05-04T14:10:57Z")
They may have shot at his chest while he was trying to drop to the ground. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-the-center-of-mass-bin-laden-related/580685/12 "2011-05-04T14:28:23Z")
I don’t think “trying” had anything to do with it. Gravity took care of that. Shot to the head=drop to the floor. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-the-center-of-mass-bin-laden-related/580685/13 "2011-05-04T14:30:43Z")
My understanding is that the second shot to the head after he was down was done to insure death. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-the-center-of-mass-bin-laden-related/580685/14 "2011-05-04T14:37:35Z")
Unless they release the complete action footage, we civilians will never know the order the shots came in. Knowing what I do of SEALs (not that much), I’d still bet on the head shot coming first. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-the-center-of-mass-bin-laden-related/580685/15 "2011-05-04T14:53:49Z")
The center of mass rule is for large battles where the enemy is 200 meters away and moving. For a house raid, you don’t really worry about aiming and marksmanship. It’s point and click. It’s incredibly easy to hit something the size of a head from 10 or 20 feet away, especially when you have an ACOG on your M4 or whatever. There’s an added benefit to shooting center of mass, though I doubt it’s really the reason they train it into you. If you hit someone in the head, his buddy will be like “You bastards!” and charge/shoot at you. If you hit someone in the stomach, his buddy will be like “I have to save Bubba!” and put down his rifle to pull out his bandages and radio for a med evac. Two soldiers, one shot. This obviously only applies to big, conventional battles and not to cordon-and-searches. ---
**Author:** ![dzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@dzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzero)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-the-center-of-mass-bin-laden-related/580685/16 "2011-05-04T15:00:18Z")
The only head shots guaranteed (AFAIK) to instantly incapacitate and kill a subject are either a) to the [medulla oblongata](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper#Shot_placement) or b) through one of the cervical vertebrae. ---
**Author:** ![RedSwinglineOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a9adbd/32.png) [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-the-center-of-mass-bin-laden-related/580685/17 "2011-05-04T15:02:12Z")
Isn’t the head usually the only thing sticking up from behind cover? The few times I played paintball, shots to the head and face were common. When that is all you can see, that is what you shoot at. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-the-center-of-mass-bin-laden-related/580685/18 "2011-05-04T15:12:21Z")
One reason for shooting at CoM is that is the slowest place to move, so if a person is standing still, the CoM is likely to stay in the same place in the time it takes to squeeze a trigger. If the person is moving, the CoM will move in the most predictable way. The fastest way to move your CoM is to lift your knees and fall to the ground, which will move your chest, neck, and head through the point of aim. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-the-center-of-mass-bin-laden-related/580685/19 "2011-05-04T15:31:27Z")
From the reports I’ve been reading, a woman (I think his wife) was in the way. She rushed the Seals and went down with a shot to the leg. But that may have made the headshot the only viable clear route. The second shot is irrelevant since that was after he was already on the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Profound\_Gibberish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Profound\_Gibberish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Profound_Gibberish)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-the-center-of-mass-bin-laden-related/580685/20 "2011-05-04T15:51:26Z")
We will never know the actual scenario but my experience with shooting in the military and civilian world would suggest that he was shot in the chest (i.e CoM) and that the head shot was the just-to-be-sure shot. This does not appear to be a “kill or capture” raid but rather a “kill and retrieve.” Good fucking riddance anyway. The one thing you learn qucikly about terminal ballistics is that _ **NO** _ shot is ever a guarantee. Bullets do crazy things when they hit soft flesh and hard bone. Double taps and triple taps are the norm to put sufficient kinetic energy into the target to incapacitate. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-at-the-center-of-mass-bin-laden-related/580685.md?page=2)