# shooting into the air **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 14, 2003, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-into-the-air/188321 "2003-07-14T05:41:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bardos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bardos/32/1069_2.png) [@bardos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bardos)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-into-the-air/188321/1 "2003-07-14T05:41:42Z")
Here’s a question I’ve been asking myself for a while now. On the news programs on TV I very often see people, (men usually) shooting rifles into the air to celebrate something or protest something. Usually in the news about the middle east. Isn’t this dangerous? Doesn’t what goes up have to come down? Do the bullets disappear? Burn up on re-entry? Why aren’t there casualties on the ground? thanks eric. * * * MODERATOR NOTE: Please be aware that this thread is from 2003, until revived in August 2014 in Post #24. That’s OK, we don’t mind topic-resurrections in this forum, but we want people to be aware. F’rinstance, you can’t reply to some of the comments because the people are no longer here. So, just be aware. – Dex ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-into-the-air/188321/2 "2003-07-14T06:01:27Z")
[Can a bullet fired into the air kill someone when it comes down?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a950414b.html) ---
**Author:** ![bardos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bardos/32/1069_2.png) [@bardos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bardos)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-into-the-air/188321/3 "2003-07-14T06:17:17Z")
Ok, thanks, I have just read that article from the link. It still doesn’t give any exact answer. It would seem, and this is based on watching news programs on TV, that there are a multitude of these guys in the middle east shooting into the air and we NEVER hear of casualties resulting from this activity. It would seem that if they were injuring (or killing) their own people, they would probably desist from this behaviour, but we never hear of casualties from one of these celebrations, at least I haven’t. So I’m still wondering why or why not. Naturally the bullet on its downward trajectory does not have muzzle velocity, but gravitational velocity (I can imagine a place in space where the buillet reached its maximum height and just stands still for a fraction of a moment before faling back down, but this velocity would still cause damage to the soft human biological machine which is more or less a water bag enclosed by thin leather. eric ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-into-the-air/188321/4 "2003-07-14T06:38:47Z")
Yes, returning bullets are easily capable of killing a human being. Firing a weapon into the air at random demonstrates an intense disregard for human life. Either that, or an incredible ignorance of the function performed by the gun being shot. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-into-the-air/188321/5 "2003-07-14T06:52:32Z")
[http://www.shotspotter.com/whitepaper.pdf](http://www.shotspotter.com/whitepaper.pdf) (warning, .PDF) > [@](#): > > In fact, the mortality rate from random, accidental and especially celebratory shootings (about 32%) is much higher than the rate normally associated with “normal” gunshot wounds (about 6%). According to a 1995 study by King/Drew Medical Center in Los Angeles, this is because 77% of the victims are hit in the head by the bullet. “Three-fourths of the survivors hit by the so-called ‘space bullets’…suffer severe long-term disabilities, including paraplegia, quadriplegia, seizures and chronic pain”[sup]12[/sup]. > > Firing guns into the air as a method of celebration is dangerous and deadly[sup]13[/sup], especially in highly populated areas such as Atlanta, New Orleans and Los Angeles. Victims of falling bullets in such areas are not uncommon, and many of them are innocent children. In Los Angeles, 118 people were treated at King/Drew Medical Center alone for such injuries between the years of 1985 and 1992[sup]12[/sup]. What goes up must come down, and bullets plummet into crowds, onto porches, in yards and in the street with lethal force, often achieving speeds of 300 to 500 feet per second – 100 feet per second is all that is necessary to penetrate human skin, and 200 feet per second will shatter bone, as shown by National Rifle Association (NRA) studies[sup]12[/sup]. > > As one staff writer for the Houston Chronicle notes in an editorial entitled “Baffling Ballistics”, “accidents do happen with alarming regularity as the result of festive gunfire”[sup]36[/sup]. Even though any shot that causes injury, including a descending space bullet, can draw a third-degree felony charge or kill a fellow human being, revelers continue to discharge their guns to celebrate, not caring where the bullet will land. ---
**Author:** ![bardos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bardos/32/1069_2.png) [@bardos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bardos)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-into-the-air/188321/6 "2003-07-14T06:54:49Z")
Yes, like Zenster, I agree (for what it’s worth) that a bullet fired into the air would most likely be capable of maiming or killing someone back here on the ground. So I guess I will redefine my question to be: Why is it that on the news we never hear of casualties caused by these AK-47-istic celebrations in the wide open streets? It would seem that if casualties were caused, then western news media would jump on this event to report the evidence of the harm done by wild-eyed radical extremist non-rational zealot behaviour on the part of Islamic hotheads bla, bla, bla. eric ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-into-the-air/188321/7 "2003-07-14T06:59:09Z")
Islamic controlled regions (or any others plagued by “festive gunfire”) are not particularly famous for their extensive, Pulitzer prize nominated reporting. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-into-the-air/188321/8 "2003-07-14T10:56:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bardos \* > It would seem that if casualties were caused, then western news media would jump on this event to report the evidence of the harm done by wild-eyed radical extremist non-rational zealot behaviour on the part of Islamic hotheads bla, bla, bla. > \*\* Because this would barely be considered newsworthy for the local news. Besides, the purpose of Western media is not to portray Islam as a nation of crazies. Most people generally recognize shooting your gun randomly in the air as a hugely irresponsible thing to do apparently unless you happen to be from an Islamic nation, East LA, or Texas. YEEE-HAWWWWWWWW!!! ---
**Author:** ![MichaelColey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ab097/32.png) [@MichaelColey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelColey)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-into-the-air/188321/9 "2003-07-14T12:19:39Z")
The odds of a bullet hitting someone is very small. Even if you look at a densely populated area with a million people in ten square miles, there’s less than a 1% chance that the bullet would hit where a person is. Probably the reason we don’t hear about this is that in the rare cases when things like this happen people have no idea where the bullet came from. It’s not a chance people should take, in any case. Michael ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-into-the-air/188321/10 "2003-07-14T12:27:39Z")
**MichaelColey** is probably right. There are so many _deliberate_ gun deaths in the US that the numbers killed by falling bullets get lost in the noise. ---
**Author:** ![radar\_ralf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b2d939/32.png) [@radar\_ralf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/radar_ralf)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-into-the-air/188321/11 "2003-07-14T13:09:05Z")
I seem to remember an incident where many rifles were shot into the air on the occasion of some country’s independence celebration… lots of people packed into a small area like a town square or some such. Bangladesh? Sri Lanka? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-into-the-air/188321/12 "2003-07-14T13:17:14Z")
NPR had an Iraqi physician on who described wounds from celebratory gunfire. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-into-the-air/188321/13 "2003-07-14T13:22:34Z")
Every year around Jan 1 in the Philadelphia, PA, USA area local news stations do reports about shooting guns in the air and they make an effort to discourage it. The past several years have seen death and injury from the gunfire as bullets come back down. One year, several children were permanently disabled, and the Phila. police force is always raising awareness … doing interviews to get the word out…making visits to neighborhoods, knocking on doors. Yes, they bullets come back…can harm people and property and some media do news pieces about it because it is a problem. ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-into-the-air/188321/14 "2003-07-14T13:34:06Z")
I remember reading that the shooting of guns into the air was made illegal during Carnaval in Rio de Janeiro because many were being injured and killed by the falling bullets. Over a million people pack into downtown Rio each night during Carnaval. ---
**Author:** ![Strychnos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Strychnos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strychnos)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-into-the-air/188321/15 "2003-07-16T02:07:33Z")
A falling bullet with 30 foot-pounds of KE will certainly kill a person if it hits the right spot. Bowhunters like me kill small game animals with blunt arrows at the same KE, and the arrow will easily penetrate a rabbit or a pheasant entirely, even if it hits a bone. ---
**Author:** ![bbeaty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c0e974/32.png) [@bbeaty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbeaty)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-into-the-air/188321/16 "2003-07-16T06:14:02Z")
Does the probability of hurting somebody vary with firing angle? I mean, if the celebratory gunfire in a city was directed 0 degrees sideways through the neighborhood, or at only a small angle, distant people would occasionally be hit, same as with vertical shots. With lots of houses around, I wonder if it’s far more dangerous to shoot randomly sideways, or more dangerous to shoot randomly upwards. Bullets shot sideways would have larger human targets, but they also would tend to hit barriers and not travel very far. Bullets shot upwards would have less chance of hitting a smaller human target from above… but there’d be many people out in the open on distant streets, and the same bullet shot sideways would have been quickly stopped by a building. Perhaps the upwards celebratory shooting in dense populated areas is MORE dangerous than randomly firing a gun directly at neighborhood buildings. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-into-the-air/188321/17 "2003-07-16T06:35:50Z")
New Orleans has (or had) a couple of really publicized deaths by celebratory gunfire a year. There were billboards up, reminders on the TV, all kinds of things. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-into-the-air/188321/18 "2003-07-16T10:52:01Z")
I’m in Iraq working on a development project. I just hired a local assistant and he has a gunshot wound from “happy fire.” I knew of people in Kosovo who hadfamily members who been injured the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-into-the-air/188321/19 "2003-07-16T11:12:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bbeaty \* > \*\*Does the probability of hurting somebody vary with firing angle? I mean, if the celebratory gunfire in a city was directed 0 degrees sideways through the neighborhood, or at only a small angle, distant people would occasionally be hit, same as with vertical shots. \*\* I would tend to say that the _“Joy-shooters”_ tend to shoot near- but not exactly - vertical. Supposing that they are part of a large crowd, the bullets will tend to go up (missing everything on the way), because their trajectory is steep enough, then later come down **outside of the crowd** because of the initial horizontal velocity component. Thus, relatively few injuries compared to what you’d get if they were shooting straight up. And they get hit all the time anyway. Just doesn’t make the headlines. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-into-the-air/188321/20 "2003-11-25T17:11:52Z")
A thousand apologies for resurrecting this thread, but this story just came across the wire. What a bunch of frick’n idiots. :rolleyes: > **[Newsday | Long Island's & NYC's News Source](https://www.newsday.com)** > > Breaking News, data & opinions in business, sports, entertainment, travel, lifestyle, plus much more. Newsday.com is the leading news source for Long Island & NYC. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-into-the-air/188321.md?page=2)