# Shooting looters **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 14, 2003, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-looters/175236 "2003-05-14T17:25:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-looters/175236/1 "2003-05-14T17:25:08Z")
The subject would make a cool band name. Anyway, has anyone ever been shot and killed for looting in the US? Does martial law have to be declared to make shooting looters legal? Are civilians allowed to shoot looters of their own stores? ---
**Author:** ![DiLLiGaF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/45deac/32.png) [@DiLLiGaF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiLLiGaF)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-looters/175236/2 "2003-05-14T17:41:03Z")
I’m not a lawyer and do not have any particular knowledge of the legal rights of someone being looted. But from what I do know it seems that the bad guys always seem to have more rights than than the good guys when it comes to defending property. I figure that if you were to shoot someone looting your store you should be prepared for a legal battle. That said, I myself would open fire. BTW, that does sound like a cool band name. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-looters/175236/3 "2003-05-14T17:57:12Z")
IANAL. It seems to vary a lot by jurisdiction. Booby traps are illegal, though. [Previous](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=175198) [discussion](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164803). ---
**Author:** ![Thin\_Ice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aeb1de/32.png) [@Thin\_Ice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thin_Ice)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-looters/175236/4 "2003-05-14T18:40:07Z")
I think it’s illegal to use deadly force to protect property pretty much everywhere in the U. S. I think the best way to lower the theft rate would be to change some of those laws. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-looters/175236/5 "2003-05-14T19:05:27Z")
**Achernar** is correct in that it varies depending on jurisdiction. In _general_, you cannot use deadly force on someone who is not threatening your life or someone else’s life, no matter what they’re doing. If, for example, you see someone sneaking out of your living room window with your T.V., you cannot use deadly force to stop him. ---
**Author:** ![ltfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@ltfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ltfire)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-looters/175236/6 "2003-05-15T00:34:37Z")
That’s why cops carry throw away weapons. :eek: did I say that? ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-looters/175236/7 "2003-05-15T01:26:53Z")
Well I’m specifically talking about looting during a crisis, not run-of-the-mill robbery. Does anyone know if US military or police have ever actually shot looters? ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-looters/175236/8 "2003-05-15T01:35:41Z")
I seem to recall that after the National Guard was sent into LA during the Rodney King riots a guy refused to stop for a checkpoint and they shot (& killed) him right through his windshield. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a5b964/32.png) [@Bill\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_H)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-looters/175236/9 "2003-05-15T01:45:36Z")
According to the San Francisco Bar Association ([http://www.sfbar.org/about/sfam/octnov97.html](http://www.sfbar.org/about/sfam/octnov97.html)), during the earthquake in 1906, soldiers were given orders to shoot looters on sight. I’d heard that looters were hung occasionally from lampposts, and thought I’d seen pictures, but can’t find anything. ---
**Author:** ![MaryEFoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MaryEFoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaryEFoo)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-looters/175236/10 "2003-05-15T04:34:22Z")
I’d also heard of the order to shoot looters after the '06 earthquake. And I also heard that the worst of them were the militia or soldiers that were supposed to be patrolling–some of them were drunk as could be, stealing more booze, etc etc. ---
**Author:** ![TBone2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@TBone2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBone2)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-looters/175236/11 "2003-05-15T04:49:48Z")
Clearly, the mods are busy elsewhere. This one definitely belongs in either IMHO or GD. As to the OP, (1) Yes. (2) Shooting looters is not expressly legal under martial law or otherwise. In most states, the legality(?) of shooting looters has more to do with the threat of bodily harm posed by said looters to others on the scene. But that principle applies to any other sort of threat, not just one posed by a looter. (3) Yes and no. IANAL, but I also think that “Shooting Looters” would kick ass as a name for a band. I think I may drop a line to Dave Barry… ---
**Author:** ![HBby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/977dab/32.png) [@HBby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HBby)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-looters/175236/12 "2003-05-15T04:58:13Z")
I remember seeing on the news here in DC: during the Rodney King riots, two jewelry store owners shot at looters heading their way, but didn’t kill or injure anyone. They managed to fend off people for quite a long time, until they ran out of ammo. I don’t think they were prosecuted for anything. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-looters/175236/13 "2003-05-15T19:26:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Thin Ice \* > **I think it’s illegal to use deadly force to protect property pretty much everywhere in the U. S.** [Not in Texas](http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/pe/pe0000900.html#pe013.9.41): > [@](#): > > **§ 9.41. Protection of One’s Own Property** > > (a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other’s trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property. > > (b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible, movable property by another is justified in using force against the other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and: > (1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or > (2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using force, threat, or fraud against the actor. > **§ 9.42. Deadly Force to Protect Property** > > A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property: > > (1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and > > (2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary: > (A) to prevent the other’s imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or > (B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and > > (3) he reasonably believes that: > (A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or > (B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury. ---
**Author:** ![ltfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@ltfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ltfire)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-looters/175236/14 "2003-05-15T21:23:07Z")
Texas rules! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![olefin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d78d45/32.png) [@olefin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/olefin)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-looters/175236/15 "2003-05-15T21:26:48Z")
[Read here about people and business owners protecting their life and property.](http://www.nrahq.org/publications/ac/) The next to last story happen very close to where I live. The site is updated monthly with new stories from over the USA. ---
**Author:** ![Daoloth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/82dd89/32.png) [@Daoloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daoloth)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-looters/175236/16 "2003-05-15T22:13:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KidCharlemagne \* > \*\*The subject would make a cool band name. Anyway, has anyone ever been shot and killed for looting in the US? \*\* Yes. About 200 looters were shot and killed following the 1900 Storm in Galveston, Texas. Of course, that was nearly 103 years ago.