# Shooting out a bank door **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 27, 2019, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-out-a-bank-door/833105 "2019-04-27T01:04:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-out-a-bank-door/833105/1 "2019-04-27T01:04:07Z")
My understanding was that using a gun to shoot open a locked door only works in the movies–I think it’s been discussed here. But in reading about the North Hollywood bank robbery and shootout > **[North Hollywood shootout](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout)** > > The North Hollywood shootout was a confrontation between two heavily armed and armored bank robbers, Larry Phillips Jr. and Emil Mătăsăreanu, and members of the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) in the North Hollywood district of Los Angeles, California, United States on February 28, 1997. Both robbers were killed, twelve police officers and eight civilians were injured, and numerous vehicles and other property were damaged or destroyed by the nearly 2,000 rounds of ammunition fired by the r... the robbers are described as having shot their way through a bulletproof door. Please explain. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-out-a-bank-door/833105/2 "2019-04-27T01:27:10Z")
I can’t find a description of the door. The wikipedia reference disappeared but there’s [this](http://crimescenedb.com/north-hollywood-shootout/) that referenced being designed to handle small caliber rounds. (I’d assume pistol caliber.) We might not be talking about the trope of shooting the lock. We might be talking about a door largely composed of bulletproof glass. Something like that tailored to only stop pistol rounds could be breached with multiple rifle rounds. It’s not about the lock opening when shot. It’s about literally destroying the door or at least a window that allowed access to open the door from behind. Again I can’t find a reference to the door composition to answer it for GQ. It’s at least a hypothetical where a rifle could in fact breach a door that might be called bullet proof. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-out-a-bank-door/833105/3 "2019-04-27T01:29:46Z")
Even bullet proof vests are not designed to withstand multiple rounds fired at them. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-out-a-bank-door/833105/4 "2019-04-27T01:30:48Z")
In the wiki—I have not personally seen the images of the bank, so am guessing—the robbers are described as defeating a personnel door that was described as bulletproof. Many things that are described as bulletproof, are bullet-resistant, specifically to bullets fired from handguns. Those bullets are slower, have less energy, and are often less ruggedly constructed than bullets from rifles. Even rifles firing intermediate-power cartridges like 7.62 x 39mm. Moreover, though I don’t know if those type of bullets were used by the robbers, some x39 ammunition issued by the Warsaw Pact had bullets with steel cores, to aid their penetration of cover, PPE, and other obstacles. To make a long story short, the bank walls/doors may have been bullet resistant to handgun bullets, or single rifle bullets, but could have been defeated and penetrated by multiple impacts from a rifle firing steel-core or other ‘armor-piercing’ ammunition. Cribbing from a [great internet source](https://www.theboxotruth.com/) on homespun terminal ballistics testing, “Rifles are rifles, and pistols are pistols.” They have drastically different effects on materials and living tissue. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-out-a-bank-door/833105/5 "2019-04-27T02:26:49Z")
Thanks for the replies, makes sense. So let me ask the question I dismissed in my OP–if multiple high-power or intermediate rounds can defeat a door that’s “bulletproof” to fewer or lower power rounds, why CAN’T you shoot open a locked “normal” door with a pistol? Or do we have to assume the bulletproof door was some kind of glass that would shatter under repeated impacts, while a regular wooden door with a metal lock would either allow the bullets through (wood) or get the locking mechanism mangled without opening it? ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-out-a-bank-door/833105/6 "2019-04-27T03:19:21Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > Thanks for the replies, makes sense. > > So let me ask the question I dismissed in my OP–if multiple high-power or intermediate rounds can defeat a door that’s “bulletproof” to fewer or lower power rounds, why CAN’T you shoot open a locked “normal” door with a pistol? Or do we have to assume the bulletproof door was some kind of glass that would shatter under repeated impacts, while a regular wooden door with a metal lock would either allow the bullets through (wood) or get the locking mechanism mangled without opening it? If you want to waste a clip of ammo, just fire your 15 rounds in a radius around the lock and kick the door open. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-out-a-bank-door/833105/7 "2019-04-27T03:34:58Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > Thanks for the replies, makes sense. > > So let me ask the question I dismissed in my OP–if multiple high-power or intermediate rounds can defeat a door that’s “bulletproof” to fewer or lower power rounds, why CAN’T you shoot open a locked “normal” door with a pistol? Or do we have to assume the bulletproof door was some kind of glass that would shatter under repeated impacts, while a regular wooden door with a metal lock would either allow the bullets through (wood) or get the locking mechanism mangled without opening it? You can. I don’t understand the counterfactual. These doors, in the OP, I’m guessing, were composed of something like UHMWPE or Lexan. This material will resist an insult, or multiple insults, from a handgun, but will yield to projectiles from a rifle… if you had a pistol-caliber submachine gun, like a Tommy Gun with 100 round drum, maybe ybe you could defeat the door with multiple shots too.? A wooden door, in your example, would let the projectiles through, unlike the bullet proof door. I guess I just don’t understand your question. ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-out-a-bank-door/833105/8 "2019-04-27T03:38:09Z")
If you’ve got a shotgun handy most normal doors can be opened with one shot. There are “breaching rounds” that contain about an ounce and a quarter more or less of lead powder. At the range it’s deployed, usually a few inches, it act as though it were a solid slug, but it poses little danger to anyone on the other side of the door. [https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/sellier-amp-bellot-2-3-4-12-gauge-breaching-shotshells-10-rounds?a=1784620](https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/sellier-amp-bellot-2-3-4-12-gauge-breaching-shotshells-10-rounds?a=1784620) ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-out-a-bank-door/833105/9 "2019-04-27T04:12:47Z")
Well, my original question was about shooting out the “bulletproof” door in the North Hollywood robbery. I had that explained. Part of my initial puzzlement was that I had read–I thought on this message board, because that’s the most likely place–that “shooting open a (regular) door” was a Hollywood thing, not something that would work in real life. Not with a shotgun, or a breaching round, but with normal pistol ammunition. ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-out-a-bank-door/833105/10 "2019-04-27T06:24:04Z")
Here are some interesting tests done by the Box O Truth guy on laminated steel padlocks and metal doors: > **[The Box O' Truth #5 - The Locks O' Truth](https://www.theboxotruth.com/threads/the-box-o-truth-5-the-locks-o-truth.292/)** > > My friend DVDTracker, sent me an IM on AR15.com and asked, "OP, I wonder how difficult it is to shoot a lock off? I've seen it done on TV and in movies, but wonder if it is as easy as they show it to be. How about if I send you some funds to buy some... > **[The Box O' Truth #25 - Breaching Rounds](https://www.theboxotruth.com/threads/the-box-o-truth-25-breaching-rounds.349/)** > > My friend Darkmage sent me a note asking, "Have you ever shot Breaching Rounds? > > How would they work as anti-personnel rounds? Would they be "safer" for use in a home?" > > Well, I didn't know. But Darkmage offered to send me some rounds to test. He... > **[The Box O' Truth #17 - I Hear You Knocking - Metal...](https://www.theboxotruth.com/threads/the-box-o-truth-17-i-hear-you-knocking-metal-doors.320/)** > > I have had some folks ask about metal covered doors and how they would stand up to bullets. > > So....to the range. > > This is the setup. Neighbor was throwing away a metal front door. > > It is standard construction around here, thin metal over a wood... Dennis