# Shooting wolves from planes. Yes or no? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 8, 2008, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-wolves-from-planes-yes-or-no/462692 "2008-09-08T22:34:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-wolves-from-planes-yes-or-no/462692/81 "2008-09-21T11:55:13Z")
> [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](#): > > So you believe that the professionals that decided to thin the wolf population don’t know what they are doing? Ok, believe whatever. > > Got your PETA membership card at the ready? Your second sentence doesn’t have a goddamned thing to do with a goddamned thing. Christ, you people sicken me. You’ll defend anything by painting the critics as extremists. OMG, this nutcase doesn’t think we should shoot dogs from airplanes! Loony tunes! Wacky crazy people! The “professionals” just want to kill wolves because they “compete” with human hunters for moose and caribou. Even if that were true, it’s disgusting (if not unprecedented) to think that we’d exterminate an animal that’s merely surviving because it gets in the way of hobby hunting. The truth, though, is that they don’t, really. Wolves are scavengers, not hunters. Think the Gov listens? She wants to teach creation in the schools and doesn’t think man is behind global warming and STILL thinks that Iraq was involved in the 9/11/01 attacks. This is a woman who has no use for bothersome science or information or research. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-wolves-from-planes-yes-or-no/462692/82 "2008-09-21T12:55:58Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > \ She wants to teach creation in the schools and doesn’t think man is behind global warming and STILL thinks that Iraq was involved in the 9/11/01 attacks. This is a woman who has no use for bothersome science or information or research. So, instead of being repetitive, I’ll simply quote **PlanB** from above: > [@PlanB](#): > > "Sounds like this is much more political and psychological, meaning another symptom of Palin Derangement Syndrome, than anything to do with advantages and disadvantages of this practice. **devilsknew** , you wrote above: > [@devilsknew](#): > > Sure the professionals might have decided the cull…but I blame the piss poor hunter who thinks the method is sporting. They’re getting their jollies, and that is wrong. I don’t think “sporting” comes into it. It’s my understanding that the marksmen shooting wolves from aircraft are being paid to do the job, either as a bounty per head killed or by the hour. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-wolves-from-planes-yes-or-no/462692/83 "2008-09-21T13:29:14Z")
> [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](#): > > So you believe that the professionals that decided to thin the wolf population don’t know what they are doing? The ‘professional’ in fishery science? Yeah, he knows a Lot about wolves. :dubious: I’m sure he’s learned a lot on the job though. How to smile for pictures, how to play golf, how to glad hand the rabid hunters and the politicians that are drawing gun-nut support to them like flies to dung. Oh, and above all, how to bobble-head a ‘yes’ to cash his check. > [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](#): > > It’s my understanding that the marksmen shooting wolves from aircraft are being paid to do the job, either as a bounty per head killed or by the hour. ‘Marksmen’ is such a nice complimentary weasel-word. It implies individuals who have passed a professional standard and were certified so, even though there isn’t any such standard in place within the policy being discussed. Here, its more like “Got access to a plane & a loaded gun? You go for it, Jethro”. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-wolves-from-planes-yes-or-no/462692/84 "2008-09-21T13:36:50Z")
I guess Palin Derangement Syndrome is “defending anything, no matter how stupid, by making believe the facts are partisan.” But really it’s just Bush Derangement Syndrome all over again, that inability to self-critique, the delusion that all things are excusable by deflecting blame to the critics. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-wolves-from-planes-yes-or-no/462692/85 "2008-09-21T14:25:39Z")
> [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](#): > > So you believe that the professionals that decided to thin the wolf population don’t know what they are doing? Ok, believe whatever. > > Got your PETA membership card at the ready? “Professionals”? Which would those be? Most of the board members are citizens who were chosen for their pro-hunting stance. Getting rid of wolves, increases herd size, which benefits guides, gun dealers, sporting good stores, hunter-tourism, and the state coffers. It’s completely mercenary. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-wolves-from-planes-yes-or-no/462692/86 "2008-09-21T14:48:02Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > In theory I’d be happy to shoot wolves from planes, as (a) it sounds evil, and (b) I’m evil. But first I must do a cost benefit analysis. Will the time I spend shooting be taken away from burning down nunneries? Is this the best and most evil use of my shooting-animals-from-plane-flying time available–that is, would it be more evil to shoot caribou, polar bears, bunny rabbits, or some other animal rather than wolves? Is shooting the wolves going to make baby Jesus cry, or is it going to whip Aslan into a Skald-smiting rage? > > You have to think these things through. I believe the highest cost benefit ratio for evil would be to target baby harp seals. With those cute big eyes. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-wolves-from-planes-yes-or-no/462692/87 "2008-09-21T14:49:14Z")
What? **Count Blucher** , you showed back up in this thread? I thought you’d wimped out and disappeared after your alleged “facts” were so clearly refuted. Maybe you thought an absence of 12 days would make your earlier assertions be forgotten or simply go away? It didn’t. What 5-HT posted on 9/9 is still there for all to see. Better run away again and try it in 12 more days. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-wolves-from-planes-yes-or-no/462692/88 "2008-09-21T15:16:25Z")
My stars, one of the stooges on a committee appointed by the ice queen has a masters degree. He must be right about everything, and wolves shot in the ass by rednecks in crop dusters don’t roll around in the snow, suffering terribly. Because that guy has a masters degree, they’re actually not scavengers anymore, either. Never mind what your science books say, or what you see, or what you feel. One person has, by god, a non-terminal degree in something and has written papers. Papers, goddamn it! Research papers! This might be the lamest authority anyone has ever appealed to in a fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-wolves-from-planes-yes-or-no/462692/89 "2008-09-21T17:46:35Z")
> [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](#): > > What? **Count Blucher** , you showed back up in this thread? I thought you’d wimped out and disappeared after your alleged “facts” were so clearly refuted. > > Maybe you thought an absence of 12 days would make your earlier assertions be forgotten or simply go away? It didn’t. What 5-HT posted on 9/9 is still there for all to see. Better run away again and try it in 12 more days. What part of “fisheries science” didn’t you understand? A degree in oceanography doesn’t qualify you for expertise in game management any more than a degree in astronomy prepares you to be an authority on the weather. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-wolves-from-planes-yes-or-no/462692/90 "2008-09-21T18:08:52Z")
> [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](#): > > What? **Count Blucher** , you showed back up in this thread? I thought you’d wimped out and disappeared after your alleged “facts” were so clearly refuted. > > Maybe you thought an absence of 12 days would make your earlier assertions be forgotten or simply go away? It didn’t. What 5-HT posted on 9/9 is still there for all to see. Better run away again and try it in 12 more days. I love the plural. Yes, One fact was refuted. One. Commisioner Lloyd is technically a scientist. So by your plural posting which one of the following is a lie? 1. Commisioner Lloyd was appointed by Gov Palin? 2. Appointees serve at the pleasure of the Governor? 3. Commisioner Lloyd, as a certified fisheries scientist, is not any kind of wolf expert? (Maybe they’re out hunting that elusive Gill-Wolf…) [Click. Read. Learn. Repeat.](http://www.adfg.state.ak.us/commissioner/commissioner.php) Or read back over what was posted by other people settling the issue over 11 days ago. I didn’t post back then because other people answered all you were asking for me to post, and with your level of reading comprehension, I just knew you’d pick it up. But if you really need redundancy for closure, I’ll list them all again, carefully, and in a row: From 9-10, post #63: > [@5-HT](#): > > "Commissioner Lloyd has a long and distinguished career in resource management and research in Alaska. He has worked for the Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) and other resource management agencies in the state since 1974, serving in a number of positions in many parts of Alaska. **Before being appointed Commissioner by Governor Sarah Palin in February, 2007** , Lloyd had been Director of ADF&G’s Division of Commercial Fisheries. > > Lloyd has a bachelor’s and a master’s degree in biological science and **biological oceanography** from the University of Alaska-Fairbanks, and has written or co-written more than a dozen research publications. **He is a Certified Fisheries Scientist with the American Fisheries Society and an Associate of the American Institute of Fishery Research Biologists**" (bolding mine) There was also post #69 that same day (11 days ago) which goes to it as well: > [@Chefguy](#): > > This has been a bone of contention up here for many years. **The people appointed to the commission are usually political cronies** and people who are either avid or professional hunters, guides and commercial fishermen. I know one of the current members, who is an architect by trade. The fact that the commission is overwhelmingly pro-hunting, rather than actual game management people who are trained in wildlife management is what drives the controversy. (bolding also mine) I’m not running anywhere \*\* John Carter of Mars \*\*. And any time you need something complicated spelled out for you, all you have to do is ask. The SDMB has been fighting ignorance since 1973; and it won’t stop now just because an election is less than 50 days away… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-wolves-from-planes-yes-or-no/462692/91 "2008-09-22T00:35:40Z")
My dear **Count Blucher** : Why did you neglect to bold this part?(here, I’ll do it for you): \*\* "He has worked for the Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) and other resource management agencies in the state since 1974, serving in a number of positions in many parts of Alaska\*\*. 34 years of experience in the field makes him qualified in any reasonable person’s opinion, so the following statement of yours is a lie (Your choice of terminology, I would rather believe that you are poorly informed, rather that an outright liar.) > [@Count Blucher](#): > > _Commisioner Lloyd, as a certified fisheries scientist, is not any kind of wolf expert?_ Of course, if all one is interested in is dissing Sarah Palin, reason leaves the discussion. Which again raises a question that has already been asked; Is this thread supposed to register concern about Alaska’s wolves, or is it a thinly veiled attempt to cast Gov. Palin in a poor light? The answer is pretty clear. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-wolves-from-planes-yes-or-no/462692/92 "2008-09-22T00:39:50Z")
> [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](#): > > My dear **Count Blucher** : Why did you neglect to bold this part?(here, I’ll do it for you): \*\* "He has worked for the Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) and other resource management agencies in the state since 1974, serving in a number of positions in many parts of Alaska\*\*. > > 34 years of experience in the field makes him qualified in any reasonable person’s opinion, so the following statement of yours is a lie (Your choice of terminology, I would rather believe that you are poorly informed, rather that an outright liar.) You may be right. Then again, perhaps he’s just an entrenched bureaucrat counting days to retirement. Let’s assume that he’s competent for a moment: he’s not the only member of this board, and doesn’t make the decisions on his own. Most of the rest of those folks are, as I noted earlier, blahblahblah. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-wolves-from-planes-yes-or-no/462692/93 "2008-09-22T00:43:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Is it just me, or is Board of Fisheries Publications Specialist II Shannon Stone totally bangable in a Tori Amos sort of way? No, she’s cute. I’ll bet at the Fisheries and Game annual Christmas party Cheeto Face keeps trying to hit on her and LeAn Wortman. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-wolves-from-planes-yes-or-no/462692/94 "2008-09-22T00:53:44Z")
> [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](#): > > My dear **Count Blucher** : Why did you neglect to bold this part?(here, I’ll do it for you): \*\* "He has worked for the Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) and other resource management agencies in the state since 1974, serving in a number of positions in many parts of Alaska\*\*. > > 34 years of experience in the field makes him qualified in any reasonable person’s opinion, so the following statement of yours is a lie (Your choice of terminology, I would rather believe that you are poorly informed, rather that an outright liar.) > > Of course, if all one is interested in is dissing Sarah Palin, reason leaves the discussion. Which again raises a question that has already been asked; Is this thread supposed to register concern about Alaska’s wolves, or is it a thinly veiled attempt to cast Gov. Palin in a poor light? The answer is pretty clear. Yep. The answer is that we care about the wolves. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-wolves-from-planes-yes-or-no/462692/95 "2008-09-22T00:55:36Z")
I WOULD _LOVE_ TO SHOOT WOLVES FROM A PLANE. That would be sooo cool. Just think about it get something big like an AC-130, with two awesome wolf shooters sticking out the side. You could come swooping in on the Alaska governor’s mansion blazing away. The trick would be to keep loading the wolves into the breach fast enough. Maybe you could wrap them up and then you could have a _belt fed_ wolf shooter! Just think of Sara Palin running through waist deep snow as the twin lines of wolves stitch the ground behind her. If the A,D,F&Gguys showed up you could shoot a circle of wolves around them! Man that would be cool…🆒😃 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-wolves-from-planes-yes-or-no/462692/96 "2008-09-22T01:03:52Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Yep. The answer is that we care about the wolves. Yep. While you’re at it, I’ve got this bridge I’d like to sell to you… ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-wolves-from-planes-yes-or-no/462692/97 "2008-09-22T01:15:47Z")
I said “thanks, but no thanks!”\* \*and kept the dough ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-wolves-from-planes-yes-or-no/462692/98 "2008-09-23T00:32:09Z")
> [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](#): > > My dear **Count Blucher** : Why did you neglect to bold this part?(here, I’ll do it for you): \*\* "He has worked for the Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) and other resource management agencies in the state since 1974, serving in a number of positions in many parts of Alaska\*\*. You mean that totally irrelevant part where he could have done anything from publish a paper or his dissertation on Oceanology to conduct field studies in Fishery Science? > [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](#): > > …34 years of experience in the field makes him qualified in any reasonable person’s opinion. Thirty-four years doing What, pray tell, my learned colleague? Reasonable people want to know. If you want anyone to believe that any part of those 34 years were spent studying anything in genus canis, I suggest you Cite it here and now. > [@\[QUOTE=John Carter of Mars](#): > > ;10224828]so the following statement of yours is a lie (Your choice of terminology, I would rather believe that you are poorly informed, rather that an outright liar.) I am no liar, **John Carter of Mars** nor are the statements you refer to poorly informed. In ignoring them, you’ve simply shown yourself to be willfully ignorant and incapable of thinking past your talking point. You’re a Troll, **John Carter of Mars**. > [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](#): > > Of course, if all one is interested in is dissing Sarah Palin… …arguably a target as big as Alaska… > [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](#): > > Is this thread supposed to register concern about Alaska’s wolves, or is it a thinly veiled attempt to cast Gov. Palin in a poor light? The answer is pretty clear. You’re right **John**. The wolves just asked for it. Michael Moore slipped them some kibble as he filmed a documentary solely aimed at discrediting the Killa from Wasilla. He even coached them how to die before the drunken rabble gunned them down. [Their last words?\*](http://www.searchingwolf.com/howl.wav) “Don’t Tase Me, Bro…!” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-wolves-from-planes-yes-or-no/462692/99 "2008-09-23T03:25:07Z")
> [@Count Blucher](#): > > Thirty-four years doing What, pray tell, my learned colleague? Reasonable people want to know. > > If you want anyone to believe that any part of those 34 years were spent studying anything in genus canis, I suggest you Cite it here and now. I see that you have ventured off into an area of the workaday world in which you have no experience or knowledge. No person the least bit familiar with wildlife agencies would think that a person could have a 34 year career in the field in Alaska and not be knowledgeable about wolves, salmon, polar bears and other species native to that State. **Count Blucher** , I’m sure that you are quite the killer in role-playing games or some similar pursuit. You’d be well served to comment in that area and leave things outdoorsy to others. ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-wolves-from-planes-yes-or-no/462692/100 "2008-09-23T04:56:15Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > This isn’t too far from drowning bags of cats. It’s disgusting, cruel, and stupid, and anyone defending this behavior has to do a serious moral self-inventory. What’s wrong with that? It’s a relatively quick and humane way of killing them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-wolves-from-planes-yes-or-no/462692.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shooting-wolves-from-planes-yes-or-no/462692.md?page=6)