# Shop class no no’s Shorts, long hair and giant prosthetic boobs?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-class-no-no-s-shorts-long-hair-and-giant-prosthetic-boobs/971773
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [September 18, 2022, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-class-no-no-s-shorts-long-hair-and-giant-prosthetic-boobs/971773 "2022-09-18T21:00:08Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 29
### Author:  [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)
#### Post date: [October 7, 2022, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-class-no-no-s-shorts-long-hair-and-giant-prosthetic-boobs/971773/561 "2022-10-07T15:46:18Z")
…so the thread has now reached the “What if I identify as black, but I’m not where exactly do you draw the line” phase.
Which will be good for another, say, 150-200 posts in this thread. It’s not as if we haven’t debated that one to death already.
Meanwhile, today in the war on trangender people:
> [@Chron](#):
>
> A federal judge in Texas has declared Biden administration protections for transgender workers unlawful in a ruling issued in the Northern District of Texas last week, according to court documents.
[https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Texas-transgender-law-17492400.php](https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Texas-transgender-law-17492400.php)
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### Author:  [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)
#### Post date: [October 7, 2022, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-class-no-no-s-shorts-long-hair-and-giant-prosthetic-boobs/971773/562 "2022-10-07T15:48:55Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#):
>
> Is white privilege not a thing?
Of course it’s a thing you dumb fuck. It’s just not a thing you can lose by telling people “I’m Black, Y’all!”
@Banquet_Bear I hear you, and will no longer extend this nonsense, but I needed to get one last dumb fuck in there for WB.
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### Author:  [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)
#### Post date: [October 7, 2022, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-class-no-no-s-shorts-long-hair-and-giant-prosthetic-boobs/971773/563 "2022-10-07T15:50:47Z")
Incoming!
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### Author:  [@WalterBishop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WalterBishop)
#### Post date: [October 7, 2022, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-class-no-no-s-shorts-long-hair-and-giant-prosthetic-boobs/971773/564 "2022-10-07T15:55:43Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#):
>
> Of course it’s a thing you dumb fuck. It’s just not a thing you can lose by telling people “I’m Black, Y’all!”
I assume that someone sincere about identifying as another race would alter their appearance accordingly, just as trans women do. By doing so, they’d be divesting themselves of their white privilege, which, as I said, would be strong evidence of their sincerity.
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### Author:  [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)
#### Post date: [October 7, 2022, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-class-no-no-s-shorts-long-hair-and-giant-prosthetic-boobs/971773/565 "2022-10-07T16:34:25Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#):
>
> what’s to stop a white person calling themself black and justifying it by saying that a black person is simply a person who identifies as black?
> [@WalterBishop](#):
>
> is would my co-worker actually _be_ black, if he had a deep inner conviction that he was?
> [@WalterBishop](#):
>
> I don’t see why you can identify into a different gender but not a different race.
> [@WalterBishop](#):
>
> Why is it that someone can self identify as a different gender but not a different race?
> [@WalterBishop](#):
>
> If sincere self-declaration is all that’s necessary to change one’s gender in the eyes of the world, why can’t the same be true of changing one’s race?
> [@WalterBishop](#):
>
> I assume that someone sincere about identifying as another race would alter their appearance accordingly, just as trans women do
> **[Rachel Dolezal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Dolezal)**
>
> Nkechi Amare Diallo (born Rachel Anne Dolezal, November 12, 1977)\[fn 1\] (/ˈdoʊləʒɑːl/) is an American former college instructor and activist known for presenting herself as a black woman despite being born to white parents. She is also a former National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) chapter president.
> Dolezal was president of the NAACP chapter in Spokane, Washington, from 2014 until June 2015, when she resigned in the midst of controversy over her racial identity. S...
> After the controversy regarding Dolezal’s racial identity became public, the NAACP released a statement in support of her leadership
> In June 2015, psychologist [Halford Fairchild](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halford_Fairchild) said, “Rachel Dolezal is black because she identifies as black. Her identity was authentic, as far as I could tell.”[[104]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Dolezal#cite_note-105) Sociologist Ann Morning also defended Dolezal, saying: “We’re getting more and more used to the idea that people’s racial affiliation and identity and sense of belonging can change, or can vary, with different circumstances.”[
> **[Transracial (identity)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transracial_(identity))**
>
> A transracial person is one who identifies as a different race than the one associated with their biological ancestry. They may adjust their appearance to make themselves look more like that race, and may participate in activities associated with that race. Use of the word transracial to describe this is new and has been criticized, because the word was historically used to describe a person raised by adoptive parents of a different ethnic or racial background, such as a Black child adopted and...
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### Author:  [@WalterBishop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WalterBishop)
#### Post date: [October 7, 2022, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-class-no-no-s-shorts-long-hair-and-giant-prosthetic-boobs/971773/566 "2022-10-07T16:53:51Z")
I’m aware of Dolezal’s case, but I’m also aware that, regardless of what Professors Fairchild and Morning feel about her, she was widely derided among the general public. Now, I’ve seen Dolezal’s documentary on Netflix and there is absolutely no doubt in my mind whatsoever that she genuinely believes herself to be black. As far as I can tell, she believes herself to be black as much as a trans woman believes herself to be a woman. This brings us back to our original question: can one sincerely self-identify as another race in the same way one can sincerely self-identify as another gender, and if not, why not? What do you think?
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [October 7, 2022, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-class-no-no-s-shorts-long-hair-and-giant-prosthetic-boobs/971773/567 "2022-10-07T17:11:30Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#):
>
> Why? Why is it that someone can self identify as a different gender but not a different race?
Race and sex are very different things. Why would you assume they work the same way?
Transgender people aren’t a thought experiment. They’re real people, who have a genuine experience of feeling a disconnect between their biological sex and their social gender, to the extent that about half of them will be suicidal at some point in their lives. Are there millions of people who feel a disconnect between the race they were born as, the race they want to be seen as? Is this disconnect so deep that it’s a genuine mental health crisis for people experiencing it? No. There are not. If there were, “transracialism” would be a thing worth discussing, but it’s not a thing that actually exists. You’ve got one contemporary example of ome woman who pretended to be a different race for significant financial and professional gain, and about a century ago, a lot of Black people who passed as White to escape invidious, pervasive racism, but there’s absolutely no evidence for the existence of “transracialism” that’s remotely comparable to the well documented, extensively studied phenomenon of transgenderism.
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### Author:  [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)
#### Post date: [October 7, 2022, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-class-no-no-s-shorts-long-hair-and-giant-prosthetic-boobs/971773/568 "2022-10-07T17:18:11Z")
If we can validate any presentation of trans woman as woman, even the shop teacher with a breast fetish and a toxic masculinity chip on her shoulder, why shouldn’t we validate people who feel in their bones they’re a different ethnicity? Rachel as a Black woman or Hilaria Baldwin( formerly known as Hilary ) as a ethnic Spaniard?
But is it fair if Rachel receives benefits reserved for born as Blacks, or transwoman might receive benefits reserved people born as females?
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### Author:  [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)
#### Post date: [October 7, 2022, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-class-no-no-s-shorts-long-hair-and-giant-prosthetic-boobs/971773/569 "2022-10-07T17:19:30Z")
Don’t forget Michael Jackson.
The first time i saw him on TV in his adulthood, i asked my husband why a white woman was singing an African-themed song. He seems to have had race-change surgery.
But kidding aside, i agree with Miller.
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### Author:  [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)
#### Post date: [October 7, 2022, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-class-no-no-s-shorts-long-hair-and-giant-prosthetic-boobs/971773/570 "2022-10-07T17:40:19Z")
> [@chela](#):
>
> But is it fair if Rachel receives benefits reserved for born as Blacks, or transwoman might receive benefits reserved people born as females?
[The former is called “fraud”](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/former-naacp-leader-rachel-dolezal-agrees-plea-deal-welfare-fraud-n991566) whereas the latter .. isn’t.
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### Author:  [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)
#### Post date: [October 7, 2022, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-class-no-no-s-shorts-long-hair-and-giant-prosthetic-boobs/971773/571 "2022-10-07T17:40:22Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#):
>
> As far as I can tell, she believes herself to be black as much as a trans woman believes herself to be a woman.
It looks like you have your answer.
> [@chela](#):
>
> the shop teacher with a breast fetish and a toxic masculinity chip on her shoulder
Could I get a cite on literally any part of that statement? I mean, I know you don’t have one, but I’m asking anyways. The current assumption I’m making is that your spreading rumors because your scared of transsexuals.
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### Author:  [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)
#### Post date: [October 7, 2022, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-class-no-no-s-shorts-long-hair-and-giant-prosthetic-boobs/971773/572 "2022-10-07T17:42:07Z")
> [@chela](#):
>
> If we can validate any presentation of trans woman as woman, even the shop teacher with a breast fetish and a toxic masculinity chip on her shoulder, why shouldn’t we validate people who feel in their bones they’re a different ethnicity? Rachel as a Black woman or Hilaria Baldwin( formerly known as Hilary ) as a ethnic Spaniard?
>
> But is it fair if Rachel receives benefits reserved for born as Blacks, or transwoman might receive benefits reserved people born as females?
You are conflating the issues. The thread so far has been about the purported case. The vast majority here say that the purported outfit was inappropriate, and would likely say that the racial equivalent, blackface with exaggerated racial characteristics, would also be inappropriate. I can’t speak for others, but I’d _guess_ that people here wouldn’t have a problem with someone who simply changed their hair style, and wore an outfit typical of a Black professional (if there is even a distinctive one for teachers).
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### Author:  [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)
#### Post date: [October 7, 2022, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-class-no-no-s-shorts-long-hair-and-giant-prosthetic-boobs/971773/573 "2022-10-07T18:08:45Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#):
>
> Why? Why is it that someone can self identify as a different gender but not a different race?
There are quite a few studies showing how the brains of people who identify as female and male are different from each other (I linked to a few earlier in this thread). That is empirical evidence. I am not aware of similar results in studies regarding the brains of different races.
By that I mean, showing how the brain of a person who is of white ancestry but identifies as Black resembles someone of Black ancestry compared to someone who who identifies as White. As far as I know, that just isn’t a thing.
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### Author:  [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)
#### Post date: [October 7, 2022, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-class-no-no-s-shorts-long-hair-and-giant-prosthetic-boobs/971773/574 "2022-10-07T18:15:32Z")
Well in this very thread one of our esteemed posters mentioned the toxic masculinity exhibited by the teacher from a reportedly anonymous source.
And it’s has been widely reported in the news that the school is supporting their trans teacher, albeit one with a breast fetish and prone to toxic masculinity.
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### Author:  [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)
#### Post date: [October 7, 2022, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-class-no-no-s-shorts-long-hair-and-giant-prosthetic-boobs/971773/575 "2022-10-07T18:17:25Z")
Those aren’t cites.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [October 7, 2022, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-class-no-no-s-shorts-long-hair-and-giant-prosthetic-boobs/971773/576 "2022-10-07T18:52:49Z")
OK, maybe someone who identifies as a member of a particular race or ethnicity is a member of that race or ethnicity. So what? Is there supposed to be some “gotcha” there?
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### Author:  [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)
#### Post date: [October 7, 2022, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-class-no-no-s-shorts-long-hair-and-giant-prosthetic-boobs/971773/577 "2022-10-07T18:57:27Z")
> [@filmore](#):
>
> clients) and not all fans are season ticket holders. Unfortunately the word “woman” has both an objective (sex-based) and subjective (gender-based) definitions, so there are often these huge conflicts about what is or isn’t a woman.
That’s a really good answer. Thanks for taking the time to write it.
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### Author:  [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)
#### Post date: [October 7, 2022, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-class-no-no-s-shorts-long-hair-and-giant-prosthetic-boobs/971773/578 "2022-10-07T19:00:14Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#):
>
> You seem to be claiming that transwomen are really men. Further, you seem to be claiming that transwomen are lying and they know they’re lying
I’m not actually claiming anything. I’m asking you or anyone else where they draw the line. I think one needs to do more than simply say they are a woman in order to be a woman. Or a man. Or black. Or Chinese. Or 23. Or anything really. Otherwise, why have definitions?
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### Author:  [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)
#### Post date: [October 7, 2022, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-class-no-no-s-shorts-long-hair-and-giant-prosthetic-boobs/971773/579 "2022-10-07T19:11:52Z")
> [@Atamasama](#):
>
> As a general principle an Indian is a person who is of some degree Indian blood and is recognized as an Indian by a tribe/village and/or the United States.
Actually an Indian is someone from the country of India. They’ve had to change the term to First Nations or Indigenous or Aboriginal here in Canada.
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### Author:  [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)
#### Post date: [October 7, 2022, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-class-no-no-s-shorts-long-hair-and-giant-prosthetic-boobs/971773/580 "2022-10-07T19:23:34Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> Is there supposed to be some “gotcha” there?
Dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria.
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