# Shop sign's with apostrophe's. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 17, 2008, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-signs-with-apostrophes/449686 "2008-05-17T21:16:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![picker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/picker/32/13969_2.png) [@picker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picker)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-signs-with-apostrophes/449686/21 "2008-05-18T02:31:23Z")
Not an apostrophe issue, but a spelling one: a neon sign, in the heart of downtown Madison, advertises ‘seating available’ for the Essen Haus, a German restaurant & drinking hall. It’s been there for years. And it’s spelled ‘Seatnig Available’ ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-signs-with-apostrophes/449686/22 "2008-05-18T03:43:39Z")
**_Stop_ sign’s with apostrophe’s** …and was wondering where you’d fit one in. No but seriously: I used to pass by a photographer in Des Moines whose sign read: **The JOHN ROBERT’S Studio** and I’d think: Does the guy even know how to _spell his own friggn name???_ ---
**Author:** ![HongKongFooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c4cdca/32.png) [@HongKongFooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HongKongFooey)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-signs-with-apostrophes/449686/23 "2008-05-18T03:49:15Z")
[QUOTE=Lobsang] One question - How common is it to refer to correct grammar as “King’s English”? I ask because over here we refer to it as “Queen’s English” for obvious reasons. [/QUOTE] That _is_ obvious now that you mention it but I’ve only heard references to “King’s English” here. FWIW. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-signs-with-apostrophes/449686/24 "2008-05-18T04:10:09Z")
I am reminded of the time in Pokhara, Nepal, when the wife and I were strolling past a small restaurant that listed it’s specialties out front on a chalkboard. Prominently at the top was: “Western Breakfast’s.” And there was this ancient-looking British lady chastising a sheepishly grinning employee over the apostrophe, demanding it be removed forthwith. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-signs-with-apostrophes/449686/25 "2008-05-18T04:10:54Z")
[QUOTE=Nutty Bunny] That’s why I love the SDMB. There are plenty of kindred spirits. My fellow grammar and spelling Nazis will love [this story](http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=688136). My husband sent me the link last week with much trepidation. He assumed I’d leave him for this guy. I’d love to walk around with white-out and markers and pursue this noble cause, but I’m afraid I’d get my ass kicked. [/QUOTE] FYI, his website is [here](http://www.jeffdeck.com/teal/). And I thought I saw a news report on him that said that he asks permission before messing with people’s signs. And as we’re a republic over here, I’d prefer that people not refer to either the King’s or the Queen’s English. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-signs-with-apostrophes/449686/26 "2008-05-18T04:13:02Z")
Then there are the missing apostrophes, like in the posters and movie marquees for the film “Two Weeks Notice.” ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-signs-with-apostrophes/449686/27 "2008-05-18T04:40:49Z")
[QUOTE=Siam Sam] Then there are the missing apostrophes, like in the posters and movie marquees for the film “Two Weeks Notice.” [/QUOTE] That’s a tricky one that I think could work either way. Does the notice belong to Two Weeks, or is a notice having a length of Two Weeks? ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-signs-with-apostrophes/449686/28 "2008-05-18T04:41:06Z")
Why should an apostrophe be required in “Two Weeks Notice”? You may want to parse it as “Two weeks’ notice”, casting “two weeks’” into the genitive, but that reading is unnecessary and uncharitable; take it as a noun-noun compound (well, here a noun phrase-noun compound), like “two month trip” or “straight dope message board” or “activities center” or such things. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-signs-with-apostrophes/449686/29 "2008-05-18T04:45:54Z")
[QUOTE=Cisco] That’s a tricky one that I think could work either way. Does the notice belong to Two Weeks, or is a notice having a length of Two Weeks? [/QUOTE] Well, the notice definitely doesn’t _belong_ to “two weeks”, lengths of time not being the sort of entities which can possess anything (most non-humans have difficulty pulling it off, but intangible concepts perhaps have it the worst). The genitive can do [a lot more](http://alt-usage-english.org/genitive_and_possessive.html) than just indicate possession; of course, what you are getting at, and what I would agree with, is that **Siam Sam** ’s reading is one as a genitive of measure, which is certainly a possible structure for such a phrase, but not the only allowable one. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-signs-with-apostrophes/449686/30 "2008-05-18T04:56:07Z")
[QUOTE=Indistinguishable] Why should an apostrophe be required in “Two Weeks Notice”? You may want to parse it as “Two weeks’ notice”, casting “two weeks’” into the genitive, but that reading is unnecessary and uncharitable; take it as a noun-noun compound (well, here a noun phrase-noun compound), like “two month trip” or “straight dope message board” or “activities center” or such things. [/QUOTE] Au contraire! I insist that it is necessary. You can say “two month trip” (actually, I’d say “two-month trip”), but that’s not the same thing. There’s a difference in, say “two-month service” and “two months’ service.” ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-signs-with-apostrophes/449686/31 "2008-05-18T04:56:52Z")
Well, ok. Would you like to provide an argument? (ETA: Ah, now you have. Hold on, to prevent the timeline of conversation from becoming completely inscrutable, I’m going to respond in a new post. :)) ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-signs-with-apostrophes/449686/32 "2008-05-18T04:59:27Z")
[QUOTE=Indistinguishable] Well, ok. Would you like to provide an argument? [/QUOTE] Sorry, I hit the Edit window while you wrote that. But it’s in any grammar-usage book I’ve ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-signs-with-apostrophes/449686/33 "2008-05-18T05:15:57Z")
Not too far from here is a store called “Two Brother’s Beauty Supply.” Every time I drive past it I try not to look, but I can’t help looking at it, like a bad accident. And then there’s the tv show \*'Til Death. \*The logo for the show starts with an open quote (like a little 6), rather than an apostrophe (like a little 9). For that reason, I refuse to watch the show. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-signs-with-apostrophes/449686/34 "2008-05-18T05:22:13Z")
[QUOTE=Siam Sam] I am reminded of the time in Pokhara, Nepal, when the wife and I were strolling past a small restaurant that listed it\*\*'\*\*s specialties out front on a chalkboard. [/QUOTE] The apostrophe, it burn’s. ---
**Author:** ![Anastasaeon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Anastasaeon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anastasaeon)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-signs-with-apostrophes/449686/35 "2008-05-18T06:20:09Z")
[QUOTE=HongKongFooey] That _is_ obvious now that you mention it but I’ve only heard references to “King’s English” here. FWIW. [/QUOTE] Just out of curiousity, where in Atlantic Canada are you? I was born and raised in southern NB, and I’ve always heard “Queen’s English”. Granted, names, dialect, and various slang and sundry could change dramatically from city to city, being separated by vast expanses of woodland in between and all… ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-signs-with-apostrophes/449686/36 "2008-05-18T07:19:56Z")
[QUOTE=Indistinguishable] Well, the notice definitely doesn’t _belong_ to “two weeks”, lengths of time not being the sort of entities which can possess anything (most non-humans have difficulty pulling it off, but intangible concepts perhaps have it the worst). The genitive can do [a lot more](http://alt-usage-english.org/genitive_and_possessive.html) than just indicate possession; of course, what you are getting at, and what I would agree with, is that **Siam Sam** ’s reading is one as a genitive of measure, which is certainly a possible structure for such a phrase, but not the only allowable one. [/QUOTE] If we meant a notice that is two weeks long, it probably should be “a two-week notice”. Otherwise, it seems to me that the apostrophe would be required in formal writing. Now that I think about it, a missing apostrophe isn’t nearly so wince-inducing as one that is extraneous or misplaced, I hardly give it a thought when I see signs that say “Childrens Apparel” or “The Mens Store” (denoting departments in a large store), but when I once saw a hand-lettered sign at my credit union telling people not to wait in line for “New Loan’s and Account’s” I wanted to hit somebody with a hammer. Maybe it’s because when the apostrophe is missing, you still know what the sign means, and whoever wrote it, perhaps uncertain of where the apostrophe should go, has decided to omit it entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-signs-with-apostrophes/449686/37 "2008-05-18T08:28:21Z")
Heck, in Quebec from 1974 to ~1998, the Quebec government punished the use of apostrophes on store signs, as that particular possessive form does not exist in French. Fucking moron’s. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-signs-with-apostrophes/449686/38 "2008-05-18T12:03:28Z")
[QUOTE=Beware of Doug] Misread as **_Stop_ sign’s with apostrophe’s** …and was wondering where you’d fit one in. [/QUOTE] Sto’p It’s a glottal stop sign. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-signs-with-apostrophes/449686/39 "2008-05-18T12:29:12Z")
:smack: Geez, whyn’t I think of that? ---
**Author:** ![Eric\_Halfabee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Eric\_Halfabee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eric_Halfabee)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-signs-with-apostrophes/449686/40 "2008-05-18T13:08:49Z")
Another non-apostrophe story: At a nearby Chik-Fil-A, there’s a sign at the drive-through exit that says, It’s been “our pleasure” to serve you. Sound a bit sarcastic to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-signs-with-apostrophes/449686.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shop-signs-with-apostrophes/449686.md?page=3)