# Shoplifter shot and killed at Walmart **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 22, 2012, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoplifter-shot-and-killed-at-walmart/619555 "2012-04-22T03:12:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoplifter-shot-and-killed-at-walmart/619555/21 "2012-04-22T12:52:54Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > He comes at you with a knife, you come at him with a gun. That’s the Wal-Mart way. No, the rule is you _always_ bring a gun to a knife fight, unless you want to be the one getting killed. Keep in mind, this guy didn’t have two concealed weapons for personal protection. He had two concealed weapons for the express purpose of attacking anyone that tried to stop him from shoplifting. At least in Wisconsin when you pull a gun (or a knife) on someone you lose your right to not get shot and killed. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoplifter-shot-and-killed-at-walmart/619555/22 "2012-04-22T13:04:18Z")
Cool story bro… But what’s with signing the thread with your username? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoplifter-shot-and-killed-at-walmart/619555/23 "2012-04-22T14:11:35Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > I don’t know if this is a whoosh. If it is, consider my hair suitably blown back. The alleged shoplifter pulled out a gun and attempted to kill the loss prevention officers. After they wrestled the gun away from him, during which a shot was accidentally fired, he pulled a knife with the intent to stab somebody. You’re damn straight I would have shot the fucker, too. In this layman’s opinion, the shooting, while regrettable, was entirely justified. Shooting him seemed to be a last resort, which, unfortunately, was necessary to be used to protect innocent lives. It was a joke, based on how annoyed I am (and others here are) by people doing stupid things in parking lots and getting away with it. I have not much sympathy for the guy who got himself killed doing dangerous, illegal things. He’s no innocent victim. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoplifter-shot-and-killed-at-walmart/619555/24 "2012-04-22T14:19:58Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > Cool story bro… > > But what’s with signing the thread with your username? Didn’t you mean to end that with “Regards, Shodan”? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoplifter-shot-and-killed-at-walmart/619555/25 "2012-04-22T14:27:05Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > Cool story bro… > > But what’s with signing the thread with your username? Maybe he thinks we’re so stupid that we can’t figure out that the person writing the post is the person whose username is at the top of it. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoplifter-shot-and-killed-at-walmart/619555/26 "2012-04-22T14:31:00Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Presumably, then, you’ll need a boat to get there. > > Boats are on aisle 7. And wherever you put the head on the pike, you’re going to want a clean up underneath it. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoplifter-shot-and-killed-at-walmart/619555/27 "2012-04-22T14:38:17Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > I believe pikes are on isle 4. > [@mhendo](#): > > Presumably, then, you’ll need a boat to get there. > > Boats are on aisle 7. The hunt is on. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoplifter-shot-and-killed-at-walmart/619555/28 "2012-04-22T15:47:57Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > And the OP’s point is…? > > The guy was trying to lift a shopping cart full of merchandise, pulled a gun on the security guys, then came at them with a knife. DOA. Case closed. Stick his head on a pike over the door as a lesson to others. My point is that shoplifting is not something you should be killed over. The “facts” that he first pulled a gun on the security guys, them came at them with a knife are only what the security guys are saying. These actions occurred behind closed doors with only security and the assailant present. If you believe their story is 100% accurate, then they followed procedures and had no other choice. I think the security guys would have to be pretty stupid if their story didn’t show that they were following procedures. So, I question if the story we are given is 100% accurate. I question, even if it is true that the perpetrator carried a loaded handgun (it has been reported that he could not possibly have had a CCL due to legal reasons) and a knife, why the situation could not have been handled without killing him. Finally, knowing that it is highly likely the given story is not 100% accurate, I question what really did happen. I’ve lived in Texas for the past 30 years. I am not totally opposed the the Death Penalty (although I do feel it is overused), and generally in favor of the concealed-carry laws. I also feel, however, that if a store catches a shoplifter, the result shouldn’t be “take him out back and shoot 'em”. excavating (for a mind) ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoplifter-shot-and-killed-at-walmart/619555/29 "2012-04-22T15:51:40Z")
> [@](#): > > My point is that shoplifting is not something you should be killed over. He wasn’t killed for shoplifting. He was killed because he tried to harm or kill other people. And that IS something that you should be killed for. Shoplifting should only get you an arrow in the knee. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoplifter-shot-and-killed-at-walmart/619555/30 "2012-04-22T16:02:31Z")
I can’t imagine why a shoplifter would turn violent. It’s a fairly minor charge. Escalating it to this level is just… ridiculous. It reminds me of cops getting shot at traffic stops. You’re 8 mph over the limit, get pulled over, and point a gun at a cop. All over a ticket that would cost you less than $100. There’s some crazy, scary nuts out there. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoplifter-shot-and-killed-at-walmart/619555/31 "2012-04-22T16:06:11Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > My point is that shoplifting is not something you should be killed over. maybe a little hyperbole, but if gunning down a few shoplifters leads to me saving a few dollars at the checkout, well. . . ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoplifter-shot-and-killed-at-walmart/619555/32 "2012-04-22T16:17:41Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > I also feel, however, that if a store catches a shoplifter, the result shouldn’t be “take him out back and shoot 'em”. > > excavating (for a mind) Something here sure needs excavating. And it is something produced in massive quanties on Texas ranches. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoplifter-shot-and-killed-at-walmart/619555/33 "2012-04-22T16:30:32Z")
I’m gonna need to know the race/ethnicity of each person involved here before I can form a judgement as to the likely course of events. ---
**Author:** ![Pitchmeister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pitchmeister/32/3459_2.png) [@Pitchmeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pitchmeister)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoplifter-shot-and-killed-at-walmart/619555/34 "2012-04-22T16:40:24Z")
What a surprise. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoplifter-shot-and-killed-at-walmart/619555/35 "2012-04-22T16:50:29Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > My point is that shoplifting is not something you should be killed over. > > The “facts” that he first pulled a gun on the security guys, them came at them with a knife are only what the security guys are saying. These actions occurred behind closed doors with only security and the assailant present. If you believe their story is 100% accurate, then they followed procedures and had no other choice. I think the security guys would have to be pretty stupid if their story didn’t show that they were following procedures. > > So, I question if the story we are given is 100% accurate. I question, even if it is true that the perpetrator carried a loaded handgun (it has been reported that he could not possibly have had a CCL due to legal reasons) and a knife, why the situation could not have been handled without killing him. Finally, knowing that it is highly likely the given story is not 100% accurate, I question what really did happen. > > I’ve lived in Texas for the past 30 years. I am not totally opposed the the Death Penalty (although I do feel it is overused), and generally in favor of the concealed-carry laws. I also feel, however, that if a store catches a shoplifter, the result shouldn’t be “take him out back and shoot 'em”. > > excavating (for a mind) When you find your mind, let us know, OK? ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Doctor\_Who](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Who)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoplifter-shot-and-killed-at-walmart/619555/36 "2012-04-22T16:57:10Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > You don’t have to be outside the store, just in the vestibule past all the registers. Continuing our little aside: Since you stated this so definitively, I’ll respectfully disagree. This is pretty much going to be store dependent (and likely vary from state to state based on statutes). Most stores, including Wal-Mart, have things to buy/do past the registers. If loss prevention approached me past the registers, I’m just going to say I’m getting a Firelog or a case of water or running to the eye store or going to the little bank kiosk or ATM to grab cash so I can pay… You get the idea. Whatever they have in front of the registers. And who knows… maybe I _am_ really going to get money so I can pay. On the other hand, letting me walk out the door without paying pretty much eliminates any other explanation than shoplifting. Now sure, if I walk into the vestibule, that might give them reasonable suspicion to detain me, but I doubt it’s going to give them enough probable cause to arrest. And, as loss prevention, I’d definitely want to know any applicable state statutes in and out before I started detaining people who have not yet left the store without paying. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoplifter-shot-and-killed-at-walmart/619555/37 "2012-04-22T18:23:46Z")
We’ve had several shop lifting threads on the sdmb. Some states have a special shop lifting law that says if you conceal an item while inside the store then they can detain you immediately. For example, placing an item in your pocket or under your shirt is “intent” to steal. Whether the store chooses to wait until you try to leave is up to them. The OP’s story said he had a cart full of merchandise. In that case it seems like they would need proof he was leaving actually the store before detaining him. I used to drink a coke while shopping at the grocery and get the cashier to scan the empty bottle. I stopped when I heard how crazy some of these anti-theft rent a cops are. I don’t want to get roughed up over a $1.25 coke. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoplifter-shot-and-killed-at-walmart/619555/38 "2012-04-22T18:44:53Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > And the OP’s point is…? > > The guy was trying to lift a shopping cart full of merchandise, pulled a gun on the security guys, then came at them with a knife. DOA. Case closed. Stick his head on a pike over the door as a lesson to others. Dude, it’s _Walmart_. It serves as its _own_ lesson to others. > [@madmonk28](#): > > I think that would be a whoosh. In the movie _The Untouchables_, Sean Connery says, “if he comes at you with a knife, you come at him with a gun. That’s the Chicago way.” Nowadays, the Chicago way would be “arrest him for carrying an illegal knife.” Like all shootings like this, it deserves investigation, but as presented it seems the security did nothing wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoplifter-shot-and-killed-at-walmart/619555/39 "2012-04-22T18:47:38Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > My point is that shoplifting is not something you should be killed over. I agree that shoplifting is something you shouldn’t be killed over. Which is why Bradshaw shouldn’t have pulled out a gun and a knife to resist what would have been a minor shoplifting arrest. > [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > The “facts” that he first pulled a gun on the security guys, them came at them with a knife are only what the security guys are saying. These actions occurred behind closed doors with only security and the assailant present. If you believe their story is 100% accurate, then they followed procedures and had no other choice. I think the security guys would have to be pretty stupid if their story didn’t show that they were following procedures. > > So, I question if the story we are given is 100% accurate. I question, even if it is true that the perpetrator carried a loaded handgun (it has been reported that he could not possibly have had a CCL due to legal reasons) and a knife, why the situation could not have been handled without killing him. Finally, knowing that it is highly likely the given story is not 100% accurate, I question what really did happen. Do you have any evidence of this or is this all in your imagination? If it makes you feel better, pretend the whole story is made up and Bradshaw is alive and resting at his home right now. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoplifter-shot-and-killed-at-walmart/619555/40 "2012-04-22T18:49:47Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Dude, it’s _Walmart_. It serves as its _own_ lesson to others. I think that’s the WalMart motto: “Shoplift here and you’ll end up as dead as Woolworths.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoplifter-shot-and-killed-at-walmart/619555.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoplifter-shot-and-killed-at-walmart/619555.md?page=3)