# Shopping mall riots **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 28, 2014, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shopping-mall-riots/708393 "2014-12-28T23:40:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shopping-mall-riots/708393/1 "2014-12-28T23:40:21Z")
I’ve heard about at least a half-dozen in the last two days, including one at a mall less than a mile from my house. 😕 Anyone know what’s up with that? They seem to be centered around the food courts; my local one wasn’t, but who cares? A riot is a riot. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shopping-mall-riots/708393/2 "2014-12-28T23:54:46Z")
It is weird that there have been a rash of these reports lately. Based on news reports it seems to be pretty much middle school and high school black teenagers congregating in large numbers, and then various groups (often girls) beating the crap out each other and passerby. Why it seems to be mainly black teens doing this, why the malls, and why the fights I have clue. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shopping-mall-riots/708393/3 "2014-12-28T23:59:45Z")
> [@astro](#): > > It is weird that there have been a rash of these reports lately. Based on news reports it seems to be pretty much middle school and high school black teenagers congregating in large numbers, and then various groups (often girls) beating the crap out each other and passerby. > > Why it seems to be mainly black teens doing this, why the malls, and why the fights I have clue. “I have clue” - a clue, or no clue? Several years ago, there were some reports, which had an element of urban legend, about “flash robs” - dozens or hundreds of teenagers and young adults, usually black, invading grocery stores, Wal-Marts, etc., stealing purses and vandalizing the store, and often grabbing everything they can find, and running off before law enforcement can arrive. Most of the publicity came from allegations that they were going on all over the place and being covered up by the news media. :rolleyes: The mall near my house has always been very safe. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shopping-mall-riots/708393/4 "2014-12-29T00:14:26Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > “I have clue” - a clue, or no clue? > > Several years ago, there were some reports, which had an element of urban legend, about “flash robs” - dozens or hundreds of teenagers and young adults, usually black, invading grocery stores, Wal-Marts, etc., stealing purses and vandalizing the store, and often grabbing everything they can find, and running off before law enforcement can arrive. Most of the publicity came from allegations that they were going on all over the place and being covered up by the news media. :rolleyes: > > The mall near my house has always been very safe. Typo “no clue” ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shopping-mall-riots/708393/5 "2014-12-29T00:18:40Z")
Given that most of the video from these things shows mobs of teens with their phones held high in the air following the fights and recording the action I don’t think there will be much covering up at this point. As a guess it might be some gangster lite portion of the crowd looking for a warm enclosed place to settle “beefs” with each other and the rest tag along for the entertainment. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shopping-mall-riots/708393/6 "2014-12-29T00:44:41Z")
Those things run as fads in certain areas sometimes. What you may be seeing isn’t a series of separate riots/fights but the same one that just has many subparts and is punctuated by intermissions because it keeps getting broken up. We had an outbreak of those when I was in high school. I got injured in one (slashed across the face at the bottom of a dogpile but I didn’t even realize it until it was broken up). They started suddenly for no real reason and ended just as suddenly weeks later but there were seemingly spontaneous flareups during that whole period because there was always someone that got hurt during a previous one. That required retaliation and several different groups had enough people that loved to fight to keep it going. They may keep doing it until everyone thinks they have settled their score or someone gets really hurt or even killed. I would stay clear of the local mall food courts until then. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shopping-mall-riots/708393/7 "2014-12-29T00:49:44Z")
[ul] [li]Thursday (Brooklyn, NY) - [http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/12/27/mob-of-teens-cause-disturbance-at-kings-plaza-mall/[/li][li]Friday](http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/12/27/mob-of-teens-cause-disturbance-at-kings-plaza-mall/%5B/li%5D%5Bli%5DFriday) (Kansas City, MO) - [http://www.kshb.com/news/region-missouri/independence/police-respond-to-incident-at-independence-center[/li][li]Friday](http://www.kshb.com/news/region-missouri/independence/police-respond-to-incident-at-independence-center%5B/li%5D%5Bli%5DFriday) (Memphis, TN) - [http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/12/27/250-teens-riot-memphis-mall[/li][li]Friday](http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/12/27/250-teens-riot-memphis-mall%5B/li%5D%5Bli%5DFriday) (near Pittsburgh, PA) - [http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2014/12/26/police-number-of-fights-reported-at-monroeville-mall/[/li][li]Saturday](http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2014/12/26/police-number-of-fights-reported-at-monroeville-mall/%5B/li%5D%5Bli%5DSaturday) (Chicago, IL) - [http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Disturbance-Reported-at--286940371.html[/li][/ul]](http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Disturbance-Reported-at--286940371.html%5B/li%5D%5B/ul%5D) ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shopping-mall-riots/708393/8 "2014-12-29T00:54:49Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > [ul] > [li]Thursday (Brooklyn, NY) - [http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/12/27/mob-of-teens-cause-disturbance-at-kings-plaza-mall/[/li][li]Friday](http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/12/27/mob-of-teens-cause-disturbance-at-kings-plaza-mall/%5B/li%5D%5Bli%5DFriday) (Kansas City, MO) - [http://www.kshb.com/news/region-missouri/independence/police-respond-to-incident-at-independence-center[/li][li]Friday](http://www.kshb.com/news/region-missouri/independence/police-respond-to-incident-at-independence-center%5B/li%5D%5Bli%5DFriday) (Memphis, TN) - [http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/12/27/250-teens-riot-memphis-mall[/li][li]Friday](http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/12/27/250-teens-riot-memphis-mall%5B/li%5D%5Bli%5DFriday) (near Pittsburgh, PA) - [http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2014/12/26/police-number-of-fights-reported-at-monroeville-mall/[/li][li]Saturday](http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2014/12/26/police-number-of-fights-reported-at-monroeville-mall/%5B/li%5D%5Bli%5DSaturday) (Chicago, IL) - [“Gunfire” at Mall Was Someone Banging on Metal Pot, Police Say – NBC Chicago](http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Disturbance-Reported-at--286940371.html%5B/li%5D%5B/ul%5D) The comments on the Pittsburgh link are horrifying. Good God. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shopping-mall-riots/708393/9 "2014-12-29T01:10:27Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > The comments on the Pittsburgh link are horrifying. Good God. comments on _any_ local news website are horrifying. that said, I worked for a food court place in a mall when I was in high school, this would have been 1993 or so. There were a couple of “events” like this when I was there, both times it was gang (or suburban white kid wannabe-gang) related. Teenagers are worthless. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shopping-mall-riots/708393/10 "2014-12-29T01:22:34Z")
Nashville had one, at the Opry Mills Mall. Local news calls it a “fight”–with more than 150 teens. This, my children is called a “riot”. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shopping-mall-riots/708393/11 "2014-12-29T01:33:37Z")
The one near Pittsburgh was strange in that a) it was mostly girls doing the actual fighting b) it’s the mall from the original Dawn of the Dead and the home of some of the first world record zombie walks. The zombies were asked to take their thing elsewhere because the merchants didn’t like the “blood”. ---
**Author:** ![Polar\_Iceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Polar\_Iceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polar_Iceman)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shopping-mall-riots/708393/12 "2014-12-29T01:56:37Z")
Here is a link that documents several such events that occurred over the Christmas period. > **[Black Mob Violence at Christmas, All Over the Country](https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2014/12/black_mob_violence_at_christmas_all_over_the_country.html)** > > Holidays are a special time for practitioners and deniers of black mob violence. The Fourth of July, Memorial Day, Labor Day and of course New Year’s are among the most popular. > > But not Christmas. Not usually. Not until this year: Black mob ... For further information and background on this phenomenon, you might want to read the book: “White Girl Bleed a Lot” available on Amazon here: > **['White Girl Bleed A Lot': The Return of Racial Violence to America and How the...](https://www.amazon.com/White-Girl-Bleed-Lot-Violence/dp/1938067061)** > > 'White Girl Bleed A Lot': The Return of Racial Violence to America and How the Media Ignore It \[Flaherty, Colin\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. 'White Girl Bleed A Lot': The Return of Racial Violence to America and How the Media... ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shopping-mall-riots/708393/13 "2014-12-29T02:07:59Z")
> [@Polar\_Iceman](#): > > For further information and background on this phenomenon, you might want to read the book: > “White Girl Bleed a Lot” available on Amazon here: > > ['White Girl Bleed A Lot': The Return of Racial Violence to America and How the Media Ignore It: Flaherty, Colin: 9781938067068: Amazon.com: Books](http://www.amazon.com/White-Girl-Bleed-Lot-Violence/dp/1938067061/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1419818037&sr=1-1&keywords=white+girl+bleed+a+lot) Ooh, an endorsement from noted racist Anthony Cumia. I know it’s going on my Amazon wishlist! ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shopping-mall-riots/708393/14 "2014-12-29T02:41:15Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > [ul] > [li]Thursday (Brooklyn, NY) - [http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/12/27/mob-of-teens-cause-disturbance-at-kings-plaza-mall/[/li][li]Friday](http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/12/27/mob-of-teens-cause-disturbance-at-kings-plaza-mall/%5B/li%5D%5Bli%5DFriday) (Kansas City, MO) - [http://www.kshb.com/news/region-missouri/independence/police-respond-to-incident-at-independence-center[/li][li]Friday](http://www.kshb.com/news/region-missouri/independence/police-respond-to-incident-at-independence-center%5B/li%5D%5Bli%5DFriday) (Memphis, TN) - [http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/12/27/250-teens-riot-memphis-mall[/li][li]Friday](http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/12/27/250-teens-riot-memphis-mall%5B/li%5D%5Bli%5DFriday) (near Pittsburgh, PA) - [http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2014/12/26/police-number-of-fights-reported-at-monroeville-mall/[/li][li]Saturday](http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2014/12/26/police-number-of-fights-reported-at-monroeville-mall/%5B/li%5D%5Bli%5DSaturday) (Chicago, IL) - [“Gunfire” at Mall Was Someone Banging on Metal Pot, Police Say – NBC Chicago](http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Disturbance-Reported-at--286940371.html%5B/li%5D%5B/ul%5D) Saturday (Sacramento, CA) - [http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article5034786.html](http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article5034786.html) There were two in Chicago, one at the Navy Pier and one at Chicago Ridge Mall. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shopping-mall-riots/708393/15 "2014-12-29T03:18:57Z")
> [@Polar\_Iceman](#): > > Here is a link that documents several such events that occurred over the Christmas period. > > [Black Mob Violence at Christmas, All Over the Country - American Thinker](http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2014/12/black_mob_violence_at_christmas_all_over_the_country.html) > > For further information and background on this phenomenon, you might want to read the book: > “White Girl Bleed a Lot” available on Amazon here: > > ['White Girl Bleed A Lot': The Return of Racial Violence to America and How the Media Ignore It: Flaherty, Colin: 9781938067068: Amazon.com: Books](http://www.amazon.com/White-Girl-Bleed-Lot-Violence/dp/1938067061/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1419818037&sr=1-1&keywords=white+girl+bleed+a+lot) That’s hardly an unbiased source for **factual answers** to the OP. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shopping-mall-riots/708393/16 "2014-12-29T04:03:14Z")
I looking at the various links I think the questions are 1: Is this something new? 2: What is it driven by? Re # 1 - I recall this kind of thing happening sporadically in the past but it really appears to me to be happening with greater frequency lately esp. around holidays when kids are out school. But what is driving this push to assemble in specific locations? is there supposed to be a fight? A party? Boredom? For the lulz?. Are kids \* planning\* to riot and loot? With all the communication going on to set these things up there has to be some sort of an answer available. RE # 2 - I’m going to guess social media communication allows large numbers of people to be assembled in these meeting calls ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shopping-mall-riots/708393/17 "2014-12-29T04:14:07Z")
They pulled this crap 3 years ago at the [State Fair](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4F8ob9nlfY). My brother was working for their PD there that night and I was working for another agency that got called in on mutual aid. It was pandemonium. Absolutely nuts. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shopping-mall-riots/708393/18 "2014-12-29T04:49:52Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I looking at the various links I think the questions are > > 1: Is this something new? > > 2: What is it driven by? In the case of Monroeville Mall (the Pittsburgh one) its not new at all. The mall has been the scene of several (one could almost say many) “teen” and “gang” incidents going back 25 or more years. It’s located near several seriously depressed communities that, to be blunt, have always been antagonistic towards each other. Even though several were formed into a common school district some of the grudges run deep. The mall is heavily invested in security and normally they and the local police do fairly well. This was more a case of a system reaching saturation and all Hell breaking loose from there. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shopping-mall-riots/708393/19 "2014-12-29T04:50:45Z")
One of my favorite malls was bulldozed because of teens fighting. When not fighting the kids would walk 6 abreast so you couldn’t walk around them. It was a great mall. The kids got there via metro buses. not satisfied with destroying a great mall the metro system built a station in it’s shadow and now the stores across the street are closing down. The nonsense started to transition to other malls so they all pulled their bus stops out. Not one mall in my area has a bus stop on their property. There have been lawsuits over it. No mall will survive if it’s subjected to the same level of hooliganism that closed the last one. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shopping-mall-riots/708393/20 "2014-12-29T04:51:23Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I looking at the various links I think the questions are > > 1: Is this something new? > > 2: What is it driven by? #1 No it is absolutely nothing new. Crime is still near an all time low in the U.S. It was much worse in the early 90’s when I was in high school. Gang violence was a much bigger problem at basically every point before now but especially bad in the late 80’s - early 90’s. We had actual organized gang members (the Crips in our case which are just local subsidiaries of a multi-level corporation) even in a small town and they did not screw around. New initiates had to prove their worth on the streets through violence up to and including murder or acts of destruction. My high school burned down my senior year and everyone is fairly certain that it was through a gang initiation ritual even though the specific person was never conclusively identified. I made the mistake of agreeing to fight with someone that attacked my younger brother who was a new initiate to the real Crips. They showed up in full force and the only reason I am here today is because a female friend whose father was a police officer tipped the gang squad off to do a stake-out. The few friends that were willing to back me only lasted for a few seconds before the guns and other weapons came out from the other side. That is when the gang squad moved into to break it up and make the arrests (we weren’t among them). It was extremely bad in certain parts of the country back then and it would take a whole lot of incidents of this type to get back to those levels. #2 You probably have a point with the downside of social media. You can reach a whole lot of people really quickly through those channels. That can be good if you are trying to sell a product but you can also use it to assemble mobs with ill intentions on demand if the circumstances are right. There is no good way around that but law enforcement needs to be aware of the potential of this new dynamic. Certain groups of teenagers (especially males of several demographics) have an excess of both aggressive energy and free time on their hands. That isn’t a good recipe for any type of social stability. They will grow out of it if you channel that energy long enough but there are not opportunities present for all of them to do that even if they wanted to. That means that an unfortunate number of them are going to make choices poor enough to long them in prison just to keep them contained until they age out of their current issues. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shopping-mall-riots/708393.md?page=2)