Now, I, also, believe that its important for an individual to be able to flex with the economy, etc.
However, the most alarming idea I got out of the linked article, was the fact that so many of our industries are being outsourced. I don’t have an ecomonic or a political education…can someone allay my fears regarding this? Is it good for a country to outsource all its industry? Does this mean we’re leaning towards becoming a nation of white-collared bureaucrats wearing crappy Levi knock-offs?
That’s all perfectly fine and no one is forced to shop at any particular store. Sorry to tell you this but American manufacturing was leaving this country long before Walmart was even on the radar screen. The American automobile industry keeps declining relative to foreign car companies and Walmart has nothing to do with it. That’s just one example of what is taking place across the entire spectrum of manufacturing. It’s very simple, the majority of people go for the lowest price. Unless in every store you shop at, you buy “Made in America” products, you are contributing to this decline.
Walmart has nothing to do with white-collar jobs being moved to Asia but it is happening. Instead of blaming Walmart, maybe people should be wondering why it’s so expensive for companies to do business in America. Why can I move my entire operation across the planet, ship the product back to the US and do it cheaper than producing the goods in the US. It’s not because of employee salaries. Think about the strangling regulations placed on business, the massive tax burden and a host of other factors.
When you want to correct this and give American made products a fighting chance, let me know and I’ll help out. Until then, I’ll ignore overly simplistic arguments about one retailer destroying American jobs.
Bricker, you’re being shortsighted here on two points. First, have you ever labored before? Really labored at a blue-collar job? It’s all right for young people, but once you are middle-aged that 8-hour day is essential, because laboring is exhausting in a way that sitting behind a desk for 300 hours a month is not.
Second, there is an enormous amount of people that literally cannot “adjust to the new economic conditions” as you euphemistically put it, for many different reasons. I’ve worked in worker’s compensation, and my heart would go the many men and women whose livelihood were damaged by their injuries. That dude who fucked his back for life tying down his load, or while working in the shop, or even as a retail clerk or in the fields, the one with four kids? He’s screwed now, Bricker, because he literally can’t do anything else. He’s not going to land a computer gig, or suddenly go work in an office somewhere. Not gonna happen.
Show a little compassion for the folks who don’t have the brains, or didn’t get the chance, or both, to “adjust to the new economic conditions.”
Some regulations protect the environment. Some taxes fund public schools, health care, defense, etc…
What conditions exist in these locales that can engage in this cheap manufacturing process?
Bricker, this is quite a sweeping statement. Where would you draw the line? Suppose Wal-Mart opened a slave labor camp in some foreign country where they could get away with it, and then sold the goods in the U.S. Would you favor civil damages or criminal proceedings against Wal-Mart (it would not be a crime under current law, but the law could be changed.) Or would you consider that an unwarranted restraint on the free market?
I have a little extra straw for your man, if you need it. :rolleyes:
Yes. I’ve worked construction and retail.
And?
This is not remotely relevant to the point. Presumably, the injured worker cannot continue in his former job of physical labor either. So whether I shop at Walmart and ship his former job overseas, or shop at Mom & Pop’s General Store and keep his job in the U.S., that particular worker is screwed.
I’m full of compassion. But does my compassion extend to guaranteeing these people that don’t have the brains, or didn’t get the chance, a lifetime of archaic employment?
I’d rather devote my compassion to helping out in vocational training centers on a volunteer basis (which I do) than spend my money subsidizing inefficient job models.
You are completely correct with everything in this post. I could not agree more with what you are saying. How many federal and state tax dollars are received from a job or company which is located outside of the United States? If you drive your jobs and companies out, you have no tax base and you end up just like the developing countries you don’t want to be like
It must also be realized that by American companies being placed under harsh restrictions but no restrictions being placed on foreign competitors, American companies are at a disadvantage. If a company in China can produce steel with no environmental, safety and possibly restrictions while an American company has to deal with the EPA, OSHA, lawsuits, inventory taxes, payroll taxes and property taxes, I ask you, is this a competitive environment for business?
People who complain about tariffs don’t take this into account when talking about a free market. If my company is so saddled with extra costs that I can never hope to compete with a foreign company on price and I have price sensitive customers, I’m moving my company out of the United States.
By the way, I hate Walmart. I think it is an economic blackhole for local economies but this bullshit about them having a hand in the destruction of American jobs is just that, bullshit
Wow. If only Ayn Rand were still with us, and actively posting on SDMB.
Just a little question. What is it that we do better than anyone else on the planet? What do we have, that when other countries think of this thing, they say to themselves ‘oh, we have to get that from america, because they make the best -insert product-’. What is our best industry? What is keeping us afloat in the world market?
I’m not asking to be flippant. Just curious.
Well, generally, “what Bricker said”. And he’s saying it so well, I think I’ll just lean back and let him talk. 
Except to add that yeah, I suppose I could drive all the way across town to patronize the small family grocery store, and all the way downtown to patronize the small family shoe store, and the small family toy store, and the small family clothing store, except that…
…the small family grocery store and the small family shoe store and the small family toy store and the small family clothing store are all selling “Made in the Rest of the World” stuff, too.
They’re all supporting Third World sweat shops, too.
So why should I drive all over town, work like a dog for a parking space, when I can drive to one store and find everything I need there? The money’s going to the same place–people assembling “stuf” in Guatemala, Mexico, China, and being thankful for it, too.
When Sam Walton was alive, and Wal-Mart really did sell only “Made in the USA” stuff, I was happy to comply. But when he died and they changed the rules, hey, it’s capitalism. It’s how it works. Like Rick is saying, economies change, systems change, the world changes, and workers have to be ready to change with it.
Signed,
WORKED IN A SHOE FACTORY ONCE
Which is now out of business.
Too bad.
Not my problem.
Our ability to come up with new “stuf” practically every day that immediately becomes, not only merely desirable, but suddenly absolutely essential.
quote:What is keeping us afloat in the world market?
Our ability to come up with new “stuf” practically every day that immediately becomes, not only merely desirable, but suddenly absolutely essential.
I would hope that we have more to offer the world than novelty.
How can I disagree with the Brickster?
Notice the final line of that quote above–Vlasic filed for bankruptcy. But the Walmart/gallon jar was NOT a factor.
Global economy…blah, blah…etc.
How do you think blacksmiths felt when the auto came into being? And there wasn’t even a Wal-mart around back then.
Way to slide around the issue, Bricker. I’m not referring to the injured worker per se, but the uninjured worker who can’t do anything but labor. There are a lot of them, man, millions and millions, from farm workers to factory workers to truckers to grocery clerks. Most of them will top out at the lowest end of management, like foremen, or produce managers (with plenty of lifting and twisting and being on their feet, still), if they are lucky and industrious.
We are outsourcing their jobs, not yours or mine. Congratulations for your volunteer work, but open your eyes, man.
Who says that it’s all novelty? Look at computers and IT. True, some has come from other countries, but a lot has come from the United States. Entertainment may be a novelty, but it’s always been wanted. Look at many of the inventions that you wouldn’t or couldn’t live without today.
I avoid Wal-Mart because the lines are too goddamn long!
I think there are differences here. Blacksmiths had time to evaluate and anticipate how this new product would change their situation. In addition, this was a case of a new product being introduced as opposed to power in negotiation. The innovation here is in business plan, practice, and execution.
During this period, Wal-Mart is really not competing. They are just throwing their weight around and getting everything they way they want. They are enjoying the advantages of past and successful competition. Besides Target, do they really have a true rival at this point?
Then you probably shouldn’t have mentioned the injured worker. It was you, not I, that introduced him to the discussion, and, it would follow, you and not I attempting to slide.
So what? So they can’t adapt, but we still owe them jobs? Perhaps we should put them to work manufacturing buggy whips, assembling whalebone corsets, and training teams of draught horses, and then exhort the American people to buy a certain supply of buggy whips, corsets, and draught teams every year, just to keep them employed.
I think this was a pretty interesting and informative article. While it clearly had an anti-Wal-Mart bias, the facts can be spun either way.
Take a look at the Levi’s story near the end of the article. Levi has survived for 150 years at the top or nearly the top of its market for jeans making. Yet, its computer and processing system were antiquated, its deliveries were late 35% of the time, they couldn’t replenish stocks as fast as their merchants wanted, and they refused to sell cheaper items despite a public demand. None of that, NONE of that, is Wal-Mart’s fault.
Levi was inefficient and it has managed to survive for so long based upon brand name. But profits were slipping and so were sales. It had to do something?
What could it do? It could update its tracking software. It could get shipments to places on time. It could ship faster and more often. Levi could do 100 things to turn that company around and NONE of them had anything to do with Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart, in this instance, was merely a catalyst in the reaction. It got Levi-Strauss to where it should have been years ago, and it got the company there fast.
The only influence Wal-Mart truly had, based upon the examples given in the article, was in the production of a cheaper pair of jeans. You know what? If Levi didn’t want to sell a cheaper pair of jeans it didn’t have to. If they didn’t want to work with Wal-Mart they didn’t have to. They’ve managed to survive for 150 years. Get the damn company to run efficiently and you’ll survive 150 more.
Bricker, you are right in that I did not express myself clearly re: injured/uninjured workers. But I feel you are being obtuse as hell. The issue is not whether “we” “owe” those millions of workers and their families jobs; the issue is what the fuck is going to happen to those people and our country when big business has “outsourced” (gotta love a euphemism) all their jobs in the name of profit.