# Short stories turned into novels? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [November 20, 2023, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/short-stories-turned-into-novels/993447 "2023-11-20T23:21:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/short-stories-turned-into-novels/993447/61 "2023-11-22T22:28:06Z")
Thanks. In spite of my efforts to keep up, sometimes I’m not aware of prominent authors until later than I’d like (I didn’t start reading Bujold until 1994) ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/short-stories-turned-into-novels/993447/62 "2023-11-23T02:07:19Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > sometimes I’m not aware of prominent authors until later than I’d like When did you become aware of Martha Wells? It certainly wasn’t later than the Hugo award ceremonies during the 2021 Worldcon. I sat near you and your wife in the audience at the ceremonies. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/short-stories-turned-into-novels/993447/63 "2023-11-23T02:22:19Z")
Another SF example: Jack Williamson’s “With Folded Hands” was expanded into a novel, first adding another section, “… And Searching Mind” and finally put together into _The Humanoids._ It happened often in 40s and 50s SF because you could make a living writing short stories, and there were few markets for novels. But once the story sold, it had an audience, so it was a better bet for publishers. (This is much like the process going around today with movies being made from known popular content like superheroes, sequels, and remakes.) It didn’t happen with mysteries as much because there was less room for expansion, though you could write sequel stories. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/short-stories-turned-into-novels/993447/64 "2023-11-23T02:30:53Z")
I never realized that Worldcons could be Dopefests. I might have gone to more! ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/short-stories-turned-into-novels/993447/65 "2023-11-23T02:44:26Z")
Andy and I met at local cons before we discovered each other on the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/short-stories-turned-into-novels/993447/66 "2023-11-23T02:54:40Z")
I remember waiting with you for the ceremony to start (some problem in the main hall?) I read the first Murderbot novella in late 2017, but she’d been writing well received stuff for decades by that point completely invisibly to me. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/short-stories-turned-into-novels/993447/67 "2023-11-23T02:55:31Z")
Yeah, you mentioned the “What If other authors wrote LOTR” thread and I recognized the reference, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/short-stories-turned-into-novels/993447/68 "2023-11-23T03:57:58Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Science fiction also has a history of “fix-ups” where an author turned several short stories into a novel. The first two books of Asimov’s Foundation novels were that. So was James Blish’s _Cities in Flight_. When the first Foundation stories were published novels from magazine SF were few and far between, so series were not written with novel publication in mind. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > In 1965 most novels were still skinny and cheap. Although serialized novels were a thing since the early days, many magazines with less money ran what they billed as “complete novels” which were only around 30,000-50,000 words. These would fit nicely into half of an Ace Double or a Galaxy Science Fiction Novel paperback. No paperback house in the early 60s was ready to take a chance at 100,000 word sf novels, both because they thought the audience wouldn’t read them and because they have to charge more money for more paper. The one exception I have in my collection is “Dune” which was gigantic for the time, but not so much any more. Which started as a series of stories in Analog. My example, which has not been mentioned yet I think, is “Nerves” by Lester del Rey. It was first published in Astounding in the early '40s and made into a novel in 1955 I think. He expanded it and fixed up a lot of the science. I’d say that to count the novel must have at least some of the same characters as the short story, so I would not consider 2001 a novelization of “The Sentinel.” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/short-stories-turned-into-novels/993447/69 "2023-11-23T04:20:53Z")
Yes, _Dune_ is the rare exception that proves the rule. The book version was cobbled together from the three-part serial _Dune World_ and the five-part serial _The Prophet of Dune_, both in _Analog_ (the revised name of _Astounding_) These were revised and expanded before being sent off to publishers. Who turned it down. They all did. Numbers vary according to the telling, but say 20 publishers. Finally Sterling Lanier, himself a science-fiction writer whose day job was being an editor at Chilton, known mainly for its auto manuals, convinced his bosses to publish the book. They regretted it. To quote Wiki, “he was dismissed from Chilton a year later because of high publication costs and poor initial book sales.” Today a true first edition, not even first printing, of _Dune_ sells for many thousands of dollars. (A signed first printing went for $22,500 at auction.) The book didn’t really take off until Ace released it in a monstrous-sized paperback edition in 1967 for an unheard of 95 cents. That changed everything, but note how late in the decade it was. To belabor the parallel to rock, it was the _Sgt. Pepper_ of sf and everybody wanted a piece of that previously unimaginable pie. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/short-stories-turned-into-novels/993447/70 "2023-11-23T15:20:46Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The book didn’t really take off until Ace released it in a monstrous-sized paperback edition in 1967 for an unheard of 95 cents. This is the edition I bought and first read. Still have it. It wasn’t until after I’d read it that I went to our local library and saw they had back issues of the bedsheet-sized Analog with Dune World in it. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/short-stories-turned-into-novels/993447/71 "2023-11-23T19:26:13Z")
Sadly I have a somewhat later edition of the paperback, probably bought in college. I couldn’t afford 95 cents for a mere book while in high school. That’s how different the world was in 1965. I did love _Dune_ when I finally bought it. (Why not take it out of the library? My library wouldn’t have bought from the tiny Chilton edition and paperbacks were verboten.) And it prepped me for spine-challenging blockbusters like John Brunner’s _Stand on Zanzibar_ a few years later. He was one of the very few guys used to writing 40,000-word “novels” who could make the transition to 200,000-word sagas. In 1953, a 19-year-old Brunner appeared in _[Two Complete Science-Adventure Books](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Complete_Science-Adventure_Books)_ magazine, which I swear I am not making up as a title. I have the complete run: the covers are awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/short-stories-turned-into-novels/993447/72 "2023-11-23T23:16:32Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > he book didn’t really take off until Ace released it in a monstrous-sized paperback edition in 1967 for an unheard of 95 cents. That’s the one I have, with a Schoenherr cover. Looks like a first paperback edition, with number N3. (I’m not sure I have any other Ace Ns.) I bought it before I started recording when and where I bought sf books. When I look it up, all the sites selling it give a publication date of 1965, though it might be later. The copyright date on the book is 1965, but that is probably for the hardcover. > [@CalMeacham](#): > > This is the edition I bought and first read. Still have it. It wasn’t until after I’d read it that I went to our local library and saw they had back issues of the bedsheet-sized Analog with Dune World in it. Have them also. I didn’t buy a lot of 95 cent books in high school, not that there were a lot of them, but I didn’t buy much of anything else, and I could buy '50s and early '60s SF magazines for a quarter each in the East Village down the street from Cooper Union. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/short-stories-turned-into-novels/993447/73 "2023-11-24T00:35:32Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Who turned it down. They all did. Numbers vary according to the telling, but say 20 publishers. Finally Sterling Lanier, himself a science-fiction writer whose day job was being an editor at Chilton, known mainly for its auto manuals, convinced his bosses to publish the book. They regretted it. To quote Wiki, “he was dismissed from Chilton a year later because of high publication costs and poor initial book sales.” I think Chilton has the highest ratio of Hugo award winners to books published though (looking at ISFDB, I see that they kept publishing SF even after Lanier was fired). ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/short-stories-turned-into-novels/993447/74 "2023-11-24T00:45:07Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The one exception I have in my collection is “Dune” which was gigantic for the time, but not so much any more. Which started as a series of stories in Analog. I think it’s worth distinguishing between the “Foundation” case, where stories were published over a series of years with no guarantee to the author that the next story would be bought (and thus requiring that each story be independent, and serials that were bought as a single unit and published piecemeal (not independently - the second and later pieces would have a brief reminder of what had come before (there were always complaints by readers who hated serials, by the way), but the pieces didn’t stand on their own) like the two parts of what is now “Dune” (which as Exapno\_Mapcase notes were a three-part and a five-part serial). In the old days, both of those parts was long enough to be considered a novel, so naturally putting them together made a (for 1965) thick book. An actual mystery example - Christie took a dozen Poirot stories and threaded a common plot through them to create “The Big Four” ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/short-stories-turned-into-novels/993447/75 "2023-11-24T22:09:42Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > An actual mystery example - Christie took a dozen Poirot stories and threaded a common plot through them to create “The Big Four” And now I see that someone already mentioned “The Big Four” > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I never realized that Worldcons could be Dopefests. I might have gone to more! I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there were more Dopers than the three of us at Worldcon - but I don’t know any others were there specifically ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/short-stories-turned-into-novels/993447/76 "2023-11-25T00:58:38Z")
We need one of those ribbons that get attached to badges, to help spot one another. Although walking around proclaiming oneself Doper might raise some questions. Or maybe recruits. ---
**Author:** ![Plutonium\_Chef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/plutonium_chef/32/11211_2.png) [@Plutonium\_Chef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plutonium_Chef)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/short-stories-turned-into-novels/993447/77 "2023-11-25T01:38:57Z")
> Although walking around proclaiming oneself Doper might raise some questions. Or maybe recruits. The ribbon doesn’t _have_ to say “Doper”. It could say “Teeming Millions”, or something. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/short-stories-turned-into-novels/993447/78 "2023-11-26T23:23:25Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there were more Dopers than the three of us at Worldcon - but I don’t know any others were there specifically I’ve been to three Worldcons. I met my wife Pepper Mill at one of them. We could have a ribbon with “SDMB” on it. That ought to be sufficiently clear to other Dopers. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/short-stories-turned-into-novels/993447/79 "2023-11-26T23:35:16Z")
I’ve been to four. “SDMB” sound good as a ribbon. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/short-stories-turned-into-novels/993447/80 "2023-11-26T23:39:51Z")
I only made it to L.A. Con III/Worldcon 54 in Anaheim back in 96. But I’m going to try my best to attend Seattle Worldcon 2025. This needs to be a Dopefest as well. Mark your calendars!!! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/short-stories-turned-into-novels/993447.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/short-stories-turned-into-novels/993447.md?page=5)