# Shortages again this fall, are you hearing this? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [August 14, 2020, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortages-again-this-fall-are-you-hearing-this/918054 "2020-08-14T05:15:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortages-again-this-fall-are-you-hearing-this/918054/21 "2020-08-16T07:23:18Z")
I totally believe it’s gonna happen. People are afraid. Fear makes you do strange things. I wouldn’t have perserved so much garden produce if I didn’t think we’d need it. I’d have rather had long lazy summer days soaking up AC. Even a slight uptick in cases and a bad flu season and all hell will break loose. Get your TP bought folks. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortages-again-this-fall-are-you-hearing-this/918054/22 "2020-08-16T08:29:15Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > But of course, if you let your toilet paper supply get flooded, then it went to waste. It doesn’t to me like the OP “let” the TP get flooded, it sounded like they had an unexpected event happen that lead to flooding. Around here it can be hard to keep basements dry - my TP stash is double-bagged and four feet off the floor, but it’s not inconceivable that the building basement could flood that deep. During 2008 lots of streets in the area flooded knee-deep and needless to say not only a lot of basements completely filled up, a lot of first-floors had ruinous amounts of water in them. The building I’m currently in didn’t get it that bad, but given the right combination of bad luck it could. That’s just one more problem with stocking up - making sure your stuff is safely stashed away against the 2020 Disaster Bingo. > [@DrDeth](#): > > This is America, there wont be any shortages in any necessities . Food, TP, etc. I’m sorry - were you here in the US back in March and April? > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I’m not worried about shortages of wheat or potatoes – one farmer and his combine can produce vast quantities of those, and do so. I am more worried about meat (meat packing plants are great places for infectious diseases to spread) and to some extent fruit (sanitation for fruit pickers can be horrible, and they often ride to a job site packed together.) > [@Senegoid](#): > > We might need to worry about some shortages. > > Our OP with her flooded-out TP stash, ain’t seen nothing. > > The recent derecho in Iowa destroyed 10 million acres (43%) of Iowa’s corn and soybean crop. Yeah - farmers can produce lots of stuff, but it has to survive long enough to be harvested and get to market. Production is just one step in the logistics chain. There’s harvest, processing (most of us don’t get wheat berries and grind our own flour, as an example), transportation… > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I also don’t think it’s immoral to lay in supplies. Especially if you do it over time, when commerce is flowing. Hoarding means collecting a bunch of stuff you don’t need and won’t use, preventing others from using it. Keeping your supplies up (of things you WILL use) seems sensible. Stocking up is something to do by buying a few extra things every weekly (or whatever) shopping trip. Hoarding is one person trying to buy all of item X in a store so no one else can have anything. Given how 2020 is rolling along, I’d advise folks to keep a money reserve if they can and to have enough stuff on hand for at least 2-4 weeks at home. I just hope the power and heat stays on during the winter. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortages-again-this-fall-are-you-hearing-this/918054/23 "2020-08-16T13:08:53Z")
Unlike hoarding in March and April, which I believe was an organic development, many companies hope to profit off of Hoarding Round 2, Hoarding Round 3, etc. I just saw an “article” that warned of hoarding again, and provided many links to products I could buy from Amazon to participate in Hoarding Round 2. ---
**Author:** ![FluffyBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@FluffyBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FluffyBob)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortages-again-this-fall-are-you-hearing-this/918054/24 "2020-08-16T14:17:47Z")
I just wanted to add that my business is partly cleaning up floods and we have been throwing out a lot of hoarded Toilet Paper. I realize people want to take some kind of action when they feel vulnerable, but FFS can we just cool it on the toilet paper weirdness? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortages-again-this-fall-are-you-hearing-this/918054/25 "2020-08-16T14:20:58Z")
How much toilet paper? I guess I feel that with uncertain supply chains, it’s just being responsible to store a month or two of supplies if you have the resources to do that. Does anyone have a plan for laying in a food stockpile? What does that look like? What are you buying/preparing and how are your storing it? ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortages-again-this-fall-are-you-hearing-this/918054/26 "2020-08-16T15:16:43Z")
One suggestion is to shop at groceries that supply local meat and produce, or at farm stands or CSAs that have a short supply chain. A benefit of this strategy is that you’re more likely to hear about an outbreak at a packing plant or farm while it’s small and you can still stock up if you need to. It also supports your community. For sundries, paper products, and non-local foods, locally-owned or chain groceries have a broader range of products, options for substitutions, and often better prices. We’re shopping at a CSA group for meat and local produce, Fred Meyer (Kroger) for basics and cleaning supplies, Whole Foods for gluten-free and specialty items, and online for other items when they’re on sale. ETA to **puzzlegal** : We live in an earthquake zone, so most people we know have a few weeks of supplies, mostly canned or stored in mouse-proof, less-crushable containers, and also have canned or bottled water. You can lay out menus and supply needs for your household and add to your supply gradually. The trick is to get food you’d actually eat so you can rotate it, or commit to donating it to a food bank and replacing it periodically. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortages-again-this-fall-are-you-hearing-this/918054/27 "2020-08-16T15:42:17Z")
Yeah. We don’t eat much in the way of canned goods, other than canned tomato products. That makes it harder. We do eat a lot of rice and beans, and those store well. But I feel like a month of rice, beans, and canned tomatoes would be pretty full, although i suppose it would keep us alive. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortages-again-this-fall-are-you-hearing-this/918054/28 "2020-08-16T17:38:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > This is America, there wont be any shortages in any necessities . Food, TP, etc. We just had a batch of shortages. Saying that something can’t happen that just did happen sounds kind of bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortages-again-this-fall-are-you-hearing-this/918054/29 "2020-08-16T19:05:06Z")
Yes, but those "shortages’ really werent, they were caused by panic hoarding . ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortages-again-this-fall-are-you-hearing-this/918054/30 "2020-08-16T19:05:49Z")
Caused by panicked hoarding. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortages-again-this-fall-are-you-hearing-this/918054/31 "2020-08-16T19:25:30Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > How much toilet paper? Every January for the past several years I’ve purchased a year’s supply of items like TP, kleenex, paper towels, etc. at Sam’s Club. During March and April I gave away some of it to people who had run out and couldn’t get more, so my stash is less than it would normally be at this time, but I’m good for at least a couple months. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I guess I feel that with uncertain supply chains, it’s just being responsible to store a month or two of supplies if you have the resources to do that. Normally I say “keep a week or two on hand”. Right now I’d say “keep a month or two” on hand, maybe even up to six months if you have room, but don’t rush out and buy it all at once. Just buy a little extra each shopping trip. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Does anyone have a plan for laying in a food stockpile? What does that look like? What are you buying/preparing and how are your storing it? I have about 10-15 pounds of food in the freezer - meat, vegetables, and fruit mostly. I don’t want to stock up more than that because if the power goes out it’s easy to lose everything in the fridge. I have about 20-40 pounds of pasta and flour at any given time, and baking bread is no big deal for me. More than about 20 pounds of flour and I have to start storing the whole grain in the freezer so it doesn’t go off. Otherwise, it’s in the cupboard in vermin-resistant containers for the open stuff and multiply-wrapped for the unopened. Also have sugar, sweetener, and the various baking needs like baking powder, yeast (almost ran out at one point - yikes! Now have a barter network with folks who have sourdough starters), and so forth. I have wheat, rice, oats, and rye. I have an array of canned goods - beans, meats (fish, corned beef), vegetables. Those are in the utility room just off the kitchen, and a few in the cupboard. I have WAY too much matzoh - the local Jewish Federation was “blessed” with a couple stores’ worth of Passover leftovers - and that stuff basically lasts forever if it doesn’t get wet (all but one box is still sealed in plastic). I’m “down” to 8-1/2 pounds of the stuff. It’s on top of the refrigerator, along with the crate of ramen noodles and extra bird food for the parrots. (Yes - you need to feed your pets, too!) I also have “Armageddon food” - freeze-dried meals that just require hot water (or just water if you’re _really_ desperate). Currently have five. Not the cheapest stuff, but it has a shelf life of 30 years so minimal worry about rotating it for freshness. Impossible to stock up rapidly because the stores around here stock very little of it and it sells fast, so I grab a new one every month or so. If the power is out I can use my [hobo stove](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobo_stove) to boil water on the balcony and still have a hot meal, because… I also have several gallons of bottled water on hand. If I really, really have to I could get by on a half gallon of water a day for drinking, food prep, minimal washing, and for the parrots. It would not be fun and after a day or two wouldn’t smell particularly nice, but I’d survive. Have a container garden. Only swiss chard, lettuce, and parsley this year, but it’s nice to have some safe greens what with all the vegetables recalls these past few years, and I barter with people who grow other stuff (which is how I got a _quart_ of local honey in the cupboard. And some pure beeswax.) If I were to up my game it would probably be with getting more potable water stored. Also, some sort of canned fuel for my hobo stove like a small thing of sterno - at the old place there was enough downed wood to run it, not so much at the new place. The reason the amounts I give have such a wide range is because it’s all stuff I actually use, so the old stuff gets rotated out and I add new as I go. But also consider sufficient soap, laundry detergent, shampoo, etc for a month or two. Don’t forget bartering. I got five pounds of vegetables a couple weeks ago in return for a small shoe repair. I don’t want TEOTWAKI but I am somewhat prepped for it. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > But I feel like a month of rice, beans, and canned tomatoes would be pretty full, although i suppose it would keep us alive. Yes, it would keep you going, but a little fun food is good for morale - that’s why I try to keep some baking type stuff on hand, some hot chocolate mix, and so forth. Morale is important. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, but those "shortages’ really werent, they were caused by panic hoarding . Not entirely. There were supply chain and transportation interruptions, and some genuine production problems. In the end, it doesn’t matter WHY a shortage occurs - if you need something and don’t have it then you have a shortage whether it’s your personal household or an entire continent going wanting. Over the past couple of months I haven’t always had everything I _wanted_ but I have had everything I _needed_. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortages-again-this-fall-are-you-hearing-this/918054/32 "2020-08-16T19:40:41Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Does anyone have a plan for laying in a food stockpile? What does that look like? What are you buying/preparing and how are your storing it? I subsist largely off of dried beans, so I always have a 25# bag around. But I think it’s important to keep a fair amount of canned goods - esp beans. Dried beans are great, but I want to be prepared in case of no power. Dried beans take a long time to cook and would use up my outdoor propane quickly. (Dried lentils are quicker, but I don’t like them as much.) I keep jars of sauces to go with the beans - tikka masala, curry, chutneys, etc. Also packets of seasoning spice mixes (left here by a visiting Pakistani friend). And cans of chili/baked beans which I add more unseasoned canned beans to. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortages-again-this-fall-are-you-hearing-this/918054/33 "2020-08-16T20:39:41Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, but those "shortages’ really werent, they were caused by panic hoarding . I think both the toilet paper shortage and the meat shortage were real – caused in part by a shift in use from commercial to residential for TP and and infections in the meat packing plants for meat. Were they exacerbated by people trying to grab what they could? Sure. You ought to assume that will happen if there are any shortages. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortages-again-this-fall-are-you-hearing-this/918054/34 "2020-08-16T20:40:14Z")
Hmm, no one else eats sardines, but I love them, and they keep really well, so I think I’ll get some of those. Also corned beef hash. And build up a larger stash of canned tomato products, and canned beans. Maybe some canned fruit? And sugar and butter and shortening, I guess. (I bought 50 lbs of flour and a pound of yeast when I couldn’t get my hands on normal quantities. We’ve been baking a lot of bread, so those are being used. The flour is in moth-proof containers, but I am a little worried about getting through it without spoilage. I include lentils with my supply of beans – they are one of our favorites, and we usually eat them every week. I’m not too worried about either the municipal water or the gas going out. I don’t see an obvious reason for that to happen unless we hit the zombie apocalypse, in which case I figure I’m dead. Power goes out from time to time, however, so I don’t want to be overly dependant on the fridge/freezer ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortages-again-this-fall-are-you-hearing-this/918054/35 "2020-08-16T20:54:46Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > corned beef hash Currently in shortage, at least at the store I generally buy it at. Out of stock for several weeks now – though I don’t know whether it’s come back in during the past few days. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortages-again-this-fall-are-you-hearing-this/918054/36 "2020-08-16T21:37:02Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Hmm, no one else eats sardines, but I love them, and they keep really well, so I think I’ll get some of those. Hey, I’ve got canned salmon, sardines, and gefilte fish (more of those Passover leftovers). I’ll eat tuna and kippers, too, just don’t happen to have any at the moment. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > The flour is in moth-proof containers, but I am a little worried about getting through it without spoilage. Flour freezes just fine. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I’m not too worried about either the municipal water or the gas going out. I don’t see an obvious reason for that to happen unless we hit the zombie apocalypse, in which case I figure I’m dead. Power goes out from time to time, however, so I don’t want to be overly dependant on the fridge/freezer In 2018 I spent three weeks without utilities - which is how I eventually wound up in my current place. After the recent derecho I have neighbors who have been without power for a week. Planning for lack of power/water is part of my storm-readiness prep. Let’s just say after living a couple weeks without power I am a convert to the power of dry ice although there are issues in using that in a freezer with a tight seal. The thing is, if you put your flour and similar stuff in a freeze to prevent spoilage if it does thaw out for a few days it will be fine and you can either use or refreeze. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortages-again-this-fall-are-you-hearing-this/918054/37 "2020-08-16T22:58:51Z")
That’s certainly true of flour, but I don’t have enough freezer space to freeze bulky items like that. It’s currently sitting in sealed plastic bins in the dining room. ---
**Author:** ![dummygladhands71](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c0e974/32.png) [@dummygladhands71](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dummygladhands71)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2020, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortages-again-this-fall-are-you-hearing-this/918054/38 "2020-08-17T01:53:18Z")
So sorry to disappoint, LSLGuy, but it wasn’t social media that said there would be repeating shortages, it was real live people, mostly family. I don’t think social media cares about my flood, at least I didn’t put it on The Facebook. I don’t hoard, I just had 2 big packages in there from (whoopee) being able to find it when I was down to single ply marine TP and using rags instead of paper towel. So I’ve replaced what I had. I was just surprised to hear that from more than 2 family members. The stores here still have shortages or “outages”. esp. in the paper and cleaning depts. I’ll cop to maybe (depending on your definition) hoarding vinegar, I have 5 gallons now, and buy it every time I go. And I keep my freezers full. Broomstick - a year’s worth. Hmmm, I guess I’ll get a little more, but not so much I have to store on the floor. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2020, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortages-again-this-fall-are-you-hearing-this/918054/39 "2020-08-17T02:13:13Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, but those "shortages’ really werent, they were caused by panic hoarding . Does it really matter what the cause was if the end result kept people from buying what they needed? ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2020, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortages-again-this-fall-are-you-hearing-this/918054/40 "2020-08-17T02:49:02Z")
The shortages were real, but they were supply-chain driven. It wasn’t that the nation couldn’t produce enough TP, it was that the TP produced for commercial dispensers was going unused. Switching over to retail quantities and packaging proved far more difficult than the average person would suppose. For myself, I found a carton of commercial 9" coreless TP rolls back in March. I just dropped a roll into a nylon tote bag and hung it from the drawer pull on the vanity. I am still using them, and probably have 2-3 months to go before I have to think about it again. I may do the same thing, I like never running out. What I would have liked to have through all this is a Restaurant Depot purchasing card. They are the local restaurant-only food warehouse. They were never short of anything, in fact they were having massive sales. But the average Joe can’t buy there, and that’s where the problem sets in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortages-again-this-fall-are-you-hearing-this/918054.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortages-again-this-fall-are-you-hearing-this/918054.md?page=3)