# Shortest distance from the U.S. mainland to Hawaii **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 6, 2017, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortest-distance-from-the-u-s-mainland-to-hawaii/803746 "2017-12-06T22:39:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortest-distance-from-the-u-s-mainland-to-hawaii/803746/21 "2017-12-07T14:55:18Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > I wonder what the longest distance (single GCA vector) one can fly entirely over water is. That line from (about) Karachi to (about) Petropavlovsk would be a pretty long trip. It also looks like it might be possible to fly straight from NYC to Perth without crossing land. Well, at approximately 60º South, between the tip of South America and Antarctica, is the one place you can circumnavigate the entire earth without ever flying over land. The earth is smaller there than at the equator or most great circle routes, though. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortest-distance-from-the-u-s-mainland-to-hawaii/803746/22 "2017-12-07T17:45:48Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Well, at approximately 60º South, between the tip of South America and Antarctica, is the one place you can circumnavigate the entire earth without ever flying over land. The earth is smaller there than at the equator or most great circle routes, though. That would not be on a single vector, though. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortest-distance-from-the-u-s-mainland-to-hawaii/803746/23 "2017-12-07T17:47:00Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > I wonder what the longest distance (single GCA vector) one can fly entirely over water is. That line from (about) Karachi to (about) Petropavlovsk would be a pretty long trip. It also looks like it might be possible to fly straight from NYC to Perth without crossing land. Canada to canada: > **[Longest straight line in the ocean without touching land (22,229 miles) |...](https://www.kickassfacts.com/longest-straight-line-in-the-ocean-without-touching-land-22229-miles/)** > > Here is the longest straight line in an ocean that you can travel without touching the land. It is nearly 22,229 miles long. A new record has been discovered: the longest straight line over the ocean without touching land. You can sail from eastern... ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortest-distance-from-the-u-s-mainland-to-hawaii/803746/24 "2017-12-07T20:15:02Z")
> [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](#): > > Poking at it a bit, it’s going to be something like San Francisco to Hilo, at about 2300 miles. My first guess had been either San Diego or Cabo San Lucas (You said NA) but those are about 2500 and 2900 miles. As you go south along California coast you also go east. As most trivia sites know Los Angeles is further east than Reno ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortest-distance-from-the-u-s-mainland-to-hawaii/803746/25 "2017-12-08T14:47:17Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The OP is somewhat ambiguous in referring to both “Hawaii” and the “Hawaiian Islands.” The State of Hawaii. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortest-distance-from-the-u-s-mainland-to-hawaii/803746/26 "2017-12-08T15:06:18Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > The State of Hawaii. Thanks for the clarification. Then the answer is French Frigate Shoals, Hawaii, to King Cove, Alaska, at 2,190 standard miles, assuming the airstrip at FFS meets your definition of an “airport.” Kure Atoll would be closer but [the airstrip there is abandoned.](http://www.airfields-freeman.com/HI/Airfields_W_Pacific.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortest-distance-from-the-u-s-mainland-to-hawaii/803746/27 "2017-12-08T15:26:44Z")
Using the Nat Geo Atlas’ distance measuring tool I get: ● 2,298 miles: Cold Bay AK to Lihue ● 2,318 miles: San Francisco to Hilo ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortest-distance-from-the-u-s-mainland-to-hawaii/803746/28 "2017-12-08T16:50:34Z")
Johnny I’d recommend a Learjet 60. It has a range (with 4 passengers and 2 crew) of 2,405 \*nautical \*miles. Enough, with reserves, to hop over to the Islands for a day on the beach. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortest-distance-from-the-u-s-mainland-to-hawaii/803746/29 "2017-12-08T17:04:50Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Johnny I’d recommend a Learjet 60. It has a range (with 4 passengers and 2 crew) of 2,405 \*nautical \*miles. Enough, with reserves, to hop over to the Islands for a day on the beach. I was thinking more of a Cessna 172 or Piper PA-28. (Not for myself, of course.) ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortest-distance-from-the-u-s-mainland-to-hawaii/803746/30 "2017-12-08T17:19:56Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I was thinking more of a Cessna 172 or Piper PA-28. (Not for myself, of course.) It’s going to involve an aircraft carrier then. Probably 4. Should be no problem in a 172 then. 2000 NM, at 113 kts. 17.7 hours. 9.5 gph (realistic) 168 gallons, + 1+ hour at least = 180 gallons at 6 lbs. a gallon - = 1080 lbs. of fuel. I’m seeing a slight problem with the math here. Ariel refueling perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortest-distance-from-the-u-s-mainland-to-hawaii/803746/31 "2017-12-08T17:36:31Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > It’s going to involve an aircraft carrier then. Probably 4. Should be no problem in a 172 then. As **md2000** notes in Post #12, it’s been done. That’s actually why I posted this thread; to find the shortest distance, calculate the amount of fuel needed, how long it would take, etc. I like doing these mental exercises from time to time. Your numbers are helpful. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortest-distance-from-the-u-s-mainland-to-hawaii/803746/32 "2017-12-08T17:43:23Z")
That’s a calm-air range. The flight from California to Hawaii is pretty much always into a good headwind. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortest-distance-from-the-u-s-mainland-to-hawaii/803746/33 "2017-12-09T02:20:28Z")
Getting a heavily overloaded lightplane into the air is not going to happen on a 2500 foot asphalt strip even if it is in the Arctic at sea level. So in addition to least distance, you need to consider takeoff performance. Plus, as **ElvisL1ves** points out, you need to factor winds. You’re going to be flying air miles, not ground miles. Over 2200-2400ish miles flown slowly, it may well be fewer air miles to fly 2400 ground miles diagonally across the wind than to fly 2200 ground miles head-on into the same wind. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortest-distance-from-the-u-s-mainland-to-hawaii/803746/34 "2017-12-09T14:13:11Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Thanks for the clarification. Then the answer is French Frigate Shoals, Hawaii, to King Cove, Alaska, at 2,190 standard miles, assuming the airstrip at FFS meets your definition of an “airport.” > > Kure Atoll would be closer but [the airstrip there is abandoned.](http://www.airfields-freeman.com/HI/Airfields_W_Pacific.htm) The French Frigate Shoals airstrip is [closed except for emergencies](https://nfdc.faa.gov/nfdcApps/services/ajv5/airportDisplay.jsp?airportId=PHHF) and by special permission of the Fish & Wildlife Service, so you might have a bit of trouble refueling there. On the other hand, I can think of worse places to end a one-way trip. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortest-distance-from-the-u-s-mainland-to-hawaii/803746/35 "2017-12-09T14:38:52Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Plus, as **ElvisL1ves** points out, you need to factor winds. Of course. But one datum at a time. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortest-distance-from-the-u-s-mainland-to-hawaii/803746/36 "2017-12-09T15:13:34Z")
Balance. That’ll be fun. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortest-distance-from-the-u-s-mainland-to-hawaii/803746/37 "2017-12-09T16:18:41Z")
Specs from [Cessna 172 - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_172#Specifications_.28172R.29). All numbers below rounded for simplicity. Ref **Morgenstern** ’s earlier post you need 180 gallons = 1100# of fuel. The standard useful load is ~750#, and if we assume 350# for pilot, food, extra fuel tankage, and survival gear, that means we’ve got about 400# left for fuel below normal gross. Which means with 1100# of fuel we’ll be overgross by about 700#. Which is about 25% over standard gross. So that’ll fly, but not real well. Be sure pick a cold day and a long runway with no obstacles in the departure path. If we need 180 gallons of fuel and standard tankage is 56 gallons, we need to install ~130 gallons of tankage. That’s only 18 cubic feet. Which is not much bigger than a human: 1+ feet deep, 3- feet wide, 6 feet tall. So cabin space is no obstacle. As long as you put it real close to the ordinary CG, it won’t have much moment. Handily enough that’s also where the factory put most of the rest of the useful load accommodations. AKA the co-pilot’s seat. So a tank set that fits more or less in that footprint mostly solves the fore-aft CG issues. Maybe an extension forward into the right side rudder pedal well and anther extension out the back behind the left seat to provide some lateral balance. Of course you should load the non-fuel weight asymmetrically left/right to offset the lateral imbalance of the takeoff fuel load. Nav & obtaining weather info is certainly a solved problem now. Not so in the 1960s. Each extra hour of flying costs 10 gallons, 60#, and 1.5 cu ft of tankage. But gets you another 100nm of range. The point of this tradeoff being that absolute shortest air distance is not an absolute requirement. Even for something this far from the airplane’s design mission we have trade space to work with. Certainly there are ferry missions that simply can’t be done with a C-172. Which implies there are ferry missions that can just barely be done. US to HI is not one of those "just barely"s. At least not for a C-172. Fun to think about, but I’ll pass on doing it myself. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortest-distance-from-the-u-s-mainland-to-hawaii/803746/38 "2017-12-09T16:49:05Z")
Cessna 123XX, right turn, new heading 090, and you’re IFR to where sir??!!!?? Say again aircraft type? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortest-distance-from-the-u-s-mainland-to-hawaii/803746/39 "2017-12-09T17:00:46Z")
Airliners in oceanic airspace sometimes have convos with these low & slow ferry missions. You’re where doing what? You want us to relay whatever to whoever? The latter is less of an issue every year with lightweight ADS and HF or satphone / satcomm rigs. Engine Turns Or Pilot Swims takes on a new immediacy when you leave the “s” off engine_s_. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortest-distance-from-the-u-s-mainland-to-hawaii/803746/40 "2017-12-09T17:25:16Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Specs from [Cessna 172 - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_172#Specifications_.28172R.29). All numbers below rounded for simplicity… > > If we need 180 gallons of fuel and standard tankage is 56 gallons… That’s for the 172R. I was thinking of the tankage on the more-common earlier models: 42 gallons total, 38 usable. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > Each extra hour of flying costs 10 gallons, 60#, and 1.5 cu ft of tankage. But gets you another 100nm of range. I think the burn is around 7 gph at 55% power, which gets you about 100 knots. Of course, there’s no way you could take off at 55% power, and I don’t know if that’s enough to maintain altitude when you’re over-gross. If you _can_ maintain altitude, I suspect your speed will be lower. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > Fun to think about, but I’ll pass on doing it myself. I concur. As my dad used to say, ‘Better thee than me!’ > [@LSLGuy](#): > > Engine Turns Or Pilot Swims takes on a new immediacy when you leave the “s” off engine_s_. ♬ _You’re flying across the ocean when you hear your engine spit You see your prop come to a stop, the God Damn engine’s quit The ship won’t float, You cannot swim, the shore is miles behind You’ll be a dish for happy fish but you will never mind You’ll never mind, You’ll never mind…_ ♬ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortest-distance-from-the-u-s-mainland-to-hawaii/803746.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shortest-distance-from-the-u-s-mainland-to-hawaii/803746.md?page=3)