# Shorties vs. Tallies \[Baseball\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [March 26, 2023, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shorties-vs-tallies-baseball/981670 "2023-03-26T11:41:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shorties-vs-tallies-baseball/981670/1 "2023-03-26T11:41:47Z")
OK, imagine we could play a game between the All-Tall lineup and the All-Short one. Who would win? Who would win a series (given a reasonable rest for the starting pitchers) or a season’s worth of games between these teams of nine players? (Let’s further assume that it’s 9 vs. 9, no DHs, no bench, no bullpen, no nothing.) One possible batting order for the shorties is LF Tim Raines 5’8" 3B John McGraw 5’7" 2B Joe Morgan 5’7" CF Hack Wilson 5’6" C Yogi Berra 5’8" 1B Joe Judge, 5’8" RF Willie Keeler 5’4" SS Phil Rizzuto 5’6" P Bobby Shantz 5’6" and for the Tallies maybe the batting order would be CF Aaron Judge 6’7" RF Daryl Strawberry 6’6" LF Dave Winfield 6’6" 1B Frank Howard 6’7’ SS Cal Ripken 6’4" C Joe Mauer 6’5" 3B Scott Rolen 6’4" 2B DJ LeMahieu 6’4" P Randy Johnson 6’10 Who would you take to win? And how might we test out your hypothesis? Totaling up the WARs? Career WAR or Peak WAR? Or playing a board game (StratoMatic or APBA or some such) with the two teams? Running a computer simulation of the two teams for 10,000 games? ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shorties-vs-tallies-baseball/981670/2 "2023-03-26T12:26:55Z")
I’d go with the Tallies due to the pitcher being from a more modern era and having an better strike out record, along with a respectable fast ball/slider. That and the rest of team are more modern as well with some great hall of famers. ---
**Author:** ![journeyman\_southpaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5e9695/32.png) [@journeyman\_southpaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/journeyman_southpaw)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shorties-vs-tallies-baseball/981670/3 "2023-03-26T14:32:00Z")
For a quick and dirty calculation I found the peak season WAR for each player. I went with the Fangraphs version because their site has the nice convenient column on the right to grab the numbers from. Raines 1985 - 7.2 McGraw 1898 - 7.8 Morgan 1975 - 11.0 Wilson 1930 - 8.2 Berra 1956 - 6.4 Judge 1920 - 4.1 Keeler 1897 - 7.4 Rizzuto 1950 - 6.9 Shantz 1952 - 6.1 TOTAL 65.1 Judge 2022 - 11.4 Strawberry 1990 - 6.5 Winfield 1979 - 7.8 Howard 1969 - 5.6 Ripken 1991 - 10.6 Mauer 2009 - 8.4 Rolen 2004 - 9.0 LeMahieu 2019 - 5.8 Johnson 2001 - 10.4 TOTAL 75.5 Looks like the tall team has the edge. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shorties-vs-tallies-baseball/981670/4 "2023-03-26T21:09:50Z")
Thanks for that work. I wonder what that translates into? The tallies winning 2 out of 3 games? Or more like they’ll win 51 games out of hundred? I started this thing wondering about the sort of advantage height gives a baseball player, and thinking it might be an edge but not a big one. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shorties-vs-tallies-baseball/981670/5 "2023-03-26T21:53:33Z")
[Moderating] I’ve edited the title for clarity. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2023, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shorties-vs-tallies-baseball/981670/6 "2023-03-27T12:24:08Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > I started this thing wondering about the sort of advantage height gives a baseball player, and thinking it might be an edge but not a big one. Height is distinctly more an edge for pitchers than hitters. If you are going to fill out a whole team, bullpen and all, your tall team will get a significant advantage. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2023, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shorties-vs-tallies-baseball/981670/7 "2023-03-27T13:12:04Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Height is distinctly more an edge for pitchers As a rule, sure. But putting together a team you can find a few short outliers that are excellent or at the very least competitive. Shantz in 1952 was about as good as it gets. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2023, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shorties-vs-tallies-baseball/981670/8 "2023-03-28T02:51:04Z")
No DH? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2023, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shorties-vs-tallies-baseball/981670/9 "2023-03-28T16:59:19Z")
I think it would be fair for each position to have Tall and Short defined by the average height of players in that position. 2023 pitchers averaged 6’3", and 2Bs averaged 5’11", which means Joe Morgan is 4 inches shorter than average. We apply that to pitchers, you get a short pitcher being 5’11", giving us Pedro Martinez. [player heights](https://www.baseballbible.net/mlb-player-heights/) ---
**Author:** ![ZamboniAce1000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/f19dbf/32.png) [@ZamboniAce1000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZamboniAce1000)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2023, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shorties-vs-tallies-baseball/981670/10 "2023-03-31T16:51:52Z")
The shorties would obviously play Eddie Gaedel (the midget on the St. Louis Browns as part of a Bill Veeck stunt), who walked in his only major league AB, at DH. He’s got a 1.000 OB percentage. 😀 ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shorties-vs-tallies-baseball/981670/11 "2023-04-01T19:42:25Z")
Anyone interested in putting together an “All Average” team where no player can be shorter than 5’9" and no taller than 6’0"? ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shorties-vs-tallies-baseball/981670/12 "2023-04-01T22:56:12Z")
> [@ZamboniAce1000](#): > > The shorties would obviously play Eddie Gaedel (the midget on the St. Louis Browns as part of a Bill Veeck stunt), who walked in his only major league AB, at DH. He’s got a 1.000 OB percentage. 😀 And would only be able to trot around the bases if a following batter hit a home run.