# Shoshana Roberts, a street walker (10 hours,) films herself being "harassed." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 29, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930 "2014-10-29T20:25:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Fallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@Fallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fallen)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/201 "2014-10-30T17:11:18Z")
“Asking them on a date twice a day for a year, even if politely, is harrassment.” True, but only assuming the askee made it clear \*in no uncertain terms _that the asker should stop asking because (s)he wasn’t interested in social interaction with the person, yes._ Otherwise, no, not so much harassment v. stupidity or wilful ignorance on both parts. \*Knowing people as I do, chances are that the person (regardless of gender) is engaging in and endless game of noncomittal beating around the bush, diversionary tactics, excuses for whatever reasons, which I find inexplicable. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/202 "2014-10-30T17:13:42Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Let’s approach this another way - when is it okay for someone to hit on a woman? [“hit on” as in make a pass at, try to start a relationship, a date, or some equivalent] I covered that. [ol][li]After you have been introduced, or [\*]when she wants you to.[/ol]I am not being ironic here - this is the actual rule.[/li] Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/203 "2014-10-30T17:14:40Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Let’s approach this another way - when is it okay for someone to hit on a woman? [“hit on” as in make a pass at, try to start a relationship, a date, or some equivalent] OK. The choice in user name is beginning to make a lot of sense now. Good to see someone has the courage to address the most pressing issue. Now, let’s approach this yet another way. (Maybe from the rear, this time?) Why does a man’s desire to get his wick wet need to take precedence over a woman’s, nay, a PERSON’s right to not have to suffer unwelcome imposition when she’s just trying to get from point A to point B? Why should anyone be made to step over a bunch of dicks being thrown in her way? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/204 "2014-10-30T17:14:59Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Let’s approach this another way - when is it okay for someone to hit on a woman? [“hit on” as in make a pass at, try to start a relationship, a date, or some equivalent] Either: 1. When he’s been properly introduced to her in a general social setting and has some particular reason to think that she might welcome an approach from him; or 2. When she is participating in some activity (e.g., drinking in a hookup bar, posting a profile on an online dating site) that indicates she’s open to being approached by strangers in general. **If someone chooses to take the chance of going outside the social conventions and hitting on a stranger who’s minding her own business, _he is NOT entitled to resent it if she ignores or rebuffs him. If that happens, he should briefly apologize and LEAVE HER ALONE_**. ETA: Or in other words, what **Shodan** said (and that’s something you don’t hear me say very often). ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/205 "2014-10-30T17:15:55Z")
It is acceptable to approach a person whom you have social interest in if that person is engaging in a socializing activity. Party, bar, book club, chatting during class breaks, etc. (And yes, “approach” does not mean “harrass”.) Walking down the street is not a social activity. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/206 "2014-10-30T17:16:40Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/207 "2014-10-30T17:18:26Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > You _really_ are a fucking imbecile. No, just an imbecile. I suspect that’s the wellspring of the bilious spew. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/208 "2014-10-30T17:20:33Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Let’s approach this another way - when is it okay for someone to hit on a woman? [“hit on” as in make a pass at, try to start a relationship, a date, or some equivalent] About the same time it’s acceptable to start a discussion about any other topic. ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Foolscap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@Double\_Foolscap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Double_Foolscap)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/209 "2014-10-30T17:21:08Z")
What if, in the course of walking down the street, the woman is singin’ “Doo wah diddy diddy dumm diddy do”? Does the act of snappin’ her fingers and shufflin’ her feet have any impact? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/210 "2014-10-30T17:24:48Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Since other posters have interjected race into the conversation, I’ll join in. > > In my experience, black guys are more likely to call out to a pretty woman and be aggressively or obnoxiously friendly/complimentary. But white guys are more likely to do the horn-honking thing and intimate that because you’re a woman on the street, you must be some kind of prostitute. > > I know that will be hard to believe for some posters here, and I know I’m just a sample of one. All I know is that when I was younger and I’d be walking down the street, all the drivers who would pull over to ask if I needed a ride or wanted to “hang out” were white guys. All the guys who would call out from stoops or sidewalks (or passenger side windows) with “hey shortie!” or “what are you doing tonight, girl?” were black guys. > > This kind of harrassment knows no color. FWIW, my wife’s experience has been that blacks mostly ignore her but that Latinos tend to look her up and down. (It’s possible that they’re saying things too, but she doesn’t understand them because they’re in Spanish :).) I don’t think it’s about “color”. It’s a class and culture thing. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/211 "2014-10-30T17:28:25Z")
Anecodotally, some women have told me that they like wearing earphones in public – whether they’re listening to music or not – because it makes catcallers much less aggressive, somehow. I suppose the catcallers somehow think a woman listening to music is “excused” from having to reply to the catcalls, because she can’t hear it. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/212 "2014-10-30T17:28:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You may be right. > > I’ve spent some time in New York as a tourist, but probably didn’t realize that nodding pleasantly and saying “Hello,” or “Afternoon!” as I passed people was marking me as an alien. > > But could it be that the ethos is not universal? That there are some transplanted New Yorkers who still feel okay about greeting people with a brief platitude about the day? It was probably odd for the people you greeted. When I moved out of NY to a more Midwestern setting, it was certainly weird to me at first how all these strangers kept greeting me. I adjusted, and I do the same when I’m in more bucolic settings now. It’s not even just in Manhattan – I grew up in a small beach town that happens to be in the five boroughs and I only really said hello to my friends and neighbors who I recognized. I never greeted, nor was greeted by, strangers who happen to be walking down the street. It’s just not a New York thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/213 "2014-10-30T17:32:11Z")
Again, what’s wrong with simply treating people as they want to be treated? Lots of women have spoken up, for years, about not wanting to be talked to, bothered, and treated differently from a man when they are out in public. So unless you know a specific woman who told you that is ok, then you treat everyone as if they don’t want to be bothered. This isn’t that difficult ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/214 "2014-10-30T17:32:29Z")
> [@Bouncer](#): > > I dunno, if you wear a bacon suit around a pack of dogs, are you asking to be sniffed and or licked/chewed on? More seriously, this is why it’s almost impossible to have a rational conversation about this. In order to be honest, you have to acknowledge that she has some part to play in the interaction by her choice of clothing, makeup, hairstyle etc. Ultimately, harassment isn’t about what women wear. It’s about male entitlement. I have Muslim female friends that wear full hijab. They get harassed by men. Comments about “pretty eyes” are frequent. Their eyes are the only part of their bodies visible on the streets. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/215 "2014-10-30T17:35:13Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Let’s approach this another way - when is it okay for someone to hit on a woman? [“hit on” as in make a pass at, try to start a relationship, a date, or some equivalent] For some women, only after you marry her. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/216 "2014-10-30T17:38:10Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > It was probably odd for the people you greeted. When I moved out of NY to a more Midwestern setting, it was certainly weird to me at first how all these strangers kept greeting me. I adjusted, and I do the same when I’m in more bucolic settings now. > > It’s not even just in Manhattan – I grew up in a small beach town that happens to be in the five boroughs and I only really said hello to my friends and neighbors who I recognized. I never greeted, nor was greeted by, strangers who happen to be walking down the street. It’s just not a New York thing to do. Even in other places, ISTM that it’s mainly people that you meet head on coming in the other direction, and make incidental eye contact with. But if someone is sitting on the side of the street and a stranger passes by they don’t call out hello or the like, as many did in this case. [FWIW, I think there are two reasons for the distinction between big cities and small towns WRT this. 1) because being in the same small town as someone else is a sort-of connection to a far greater extent than being from the same big city. And 2) because walkin down a typical big city street you pass so many people that it’s impractical to greet them all.] ---
**Author:** ![EverwonderWhy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EverwonderWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EverwonderWhy)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/217 "2014-10-30T17:41:49Z")
> [@Bouncer](#): > > I dunno, if you wear a bacon suit around a pack of dogs, are you asking to be sniffed and or licked/chewed on? More seriously, this is why it’s almost impossible to have a rational conversation about this. In order to be honest, you have to acknowledge that she has some part to play in the interaction by her choice of clothing, makeup, hairstyle etc. NO, she is wearing jeans and tee shirt walking down a public street in the middle of the day. Seriously. How do you interpret that as “wearing a bacon suit around a pack of dogs asking to be sniffed and or licked/chewed on?” If some men can not refrain from behaving like a pack of dogs around women they find attractive, the onus is on them to limit their scope in society until they can control themselves, not the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/218 "2014-10-30T17:42:00Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Again, what’s wrong with simply treating people as they want to be treated? Lots of women have spoken up, for years, about not wanting to be talked to, bothered, and treated differently from a man when they are out in public. So unless you know a specific woman who told you that is ok, then you treat everyone as if they don’t want to be bothered. This isn’t that difficult Who are you addressing with this smug condenscending tone? Is there someone here who has insisted that it’s difficult to treat women the same as men - or that there’s something wrong with doing so - such that you need to inform that it’s not difficult? The only question being discussed here is what level of harassment this woman has suffered, in the video being shown. That’s all it is. It isn’t that difficult. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/219 "2014-10-30T17:43:45Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > The basic rule is simple: > > **YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO ATTEMPT TO ATTRACT THE ATTENTION OF A STRANGER IN PUBLIC EXCEPT FOR A LEGITIMATE REASON.** > > Yes, you can still give a stranger a brief smile/nod/greeting in passing _ **IF** _ you happen to catch each other’s eye or otherwise notice each other’s existence beforehand. > > Yes, you can still demand a stranger’s attention in order to convey an important message like “Hey, watch out for that car!” or “Excuse me, you dropped your wallet”, etc. > > _ **No, your boner/sexual interest is NOT a legitimate reason for trying to initiate ANY form of communication or interaction with a passing stranger who’s not noticing you.** _ This needs to be emphasized. This is the correct behavior when addressing strangers. Anyone who attempts to gain your attention wants something from you. A salesman wants to sell you something. A beggar wants you to give them money. And a horny guy wants to have sex with you. If there’s eye contact and the other person’s body language isn’t closed off, then saying ‘Hi’ is appropriate. Otherwise say nothing. The issue in the video isn’t that the guys are saying ‘Hi’. It’s that they’re saying it when she is clearly not interested. It’s inappropriate to approach her in that situation. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/220 "2014-10-30T17:43:54Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Who are you addressing with this smug condenscending tone? Is there someone here who has insisted that it’s difficult to treat women the same as men - or that there’s something wrong with doing so - such that you need to inform that it’s not difficult? > > The only question being discussed here is what level of harassment this woman has suffered, in the video being shown. That’s all it is. It isn’t that difficult. It seems to me that there are folks (a few) in this thread who are blaming the woman for what she chose to wear, or for taking offense from any of the catcalls, among other things. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930.md?page=12)