# Shoshana Roberts, a street walker (10 hours,) films herself being "harassed." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 29, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930 "2014-10-29T20:25:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/301 "2014-10-30T20:24:28Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > I’m glad the misogyny brigade is in full force for another round. I’m so glad I don’t live anywhere near people who don’t understand not to do something that others don’t like. Who knew so many Dopers failed kindergarten? Off to put a couple of dipshit lying trolls on ignore. That’s the only thing these threads are good for. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/302 "2014-10-30T20:28:48Z")
For discussion purposes, would this be an appropriate analogy: The NAMBLA convention is in town, and they’re all hanging out on the street. These guys aren’t necessarily bad guys (I mean, most of them haven’t raped any children, but, let’s be honest, maybe some of them have). For those of you who don’t know what NAMBLA means, it’s Man Boy Love Association. These guys are all Pedophiles. Your 8 year old son is walking down that street, wearing jeans and a t-shirt. The NAMBLA guys are ignoring the adults walking down the street, and they’re focusing on your son. They’re saying things to your son. Things which are compliments. Nice things. Nothing illegal. Just things like “nice day!”, “Hello”, “mami!” “why so rude?” Is your son being rude if he ignores them? Should he feel complimented? Should he feel threatened? If you were there, would you do something about the pedophiles trying to talk to him? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/303 "2014-10-30T20:30:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’ve spoken to plenty of women who don’t mind in the slightest a polite “hello.” So unless you know a specific woman objects to that, then treat everyone as though a polite “Hello,” is ok. > > Why isn’t that the rule? In my view, because the disproportionate risk of harm. You are not harmed in any way whatsoever if you don’t say hello, and neither is the woman. But enough men have used a polite “Hello” as a pretense to something else, and enough women have had bad experiences through such incidental contact that they would rather not risk the slight benefit of a friendly “Hello” versus the possible harm from someone who takes a woman’s friendly reaction to such a greeting as an invitation to more personal intrusions Like I said, if you know specific women who have told you they don’t mind it, go ahead, say hi to them. But you don’t know how a stranger feels on the street so don’t talk to them ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/304 "2014-10-30T20:32:05Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > For discussion purposes, would this be an appropriate analogy: Given that you’re comparing anyone who does speak to only certain people on the street as pedophiles… no. It seems like an entirely unhelpful analogy that would only serve to make conversation here even more disrupted. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/305 "2014-10-30T20:32:24Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > That’s pretty archaic - and precludes all interaction that doesn’t have a go between. This would eliminate people getting together at a farmer’s market for example. I’m not sure what you mean by a “go-between”, but ‘the ordinary interplay of commerce’ covers the farmers’ market. See also what **Kimstu** said about the social situation - being invited to an outdoor party is just as valid an “introduction” as an indoor one. > [@](#): > > Why is a book club okay but walking down the street isn’t? Because joining a book club carries with it an implication of a common interest with other members of the club. Walking down the street past some half-derelicts who apparently have nothing to do with their time than sit on the sidewalk and bother women does not. > [@](#): > > If someone went to a book club only for the purpose of discussing a book and was hit on a single time and felt harassed as a result, would you tell them to lighten up, Francis, or add book clubs to the list of places that is unacceptable to be hit on? A single time? Tell them to drop the acquaintance and ignore (“cut”) the person. If he persists, he is not a gentleman and need not be treated as such. It’s not like all these questions haven’t been worked out in detail by advanced social thinkers like Miss Manners, and, suitably brought up to date, work as well in the 21st century as they did in the 19th. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/306 "2014-10-30T20:37:01Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Given that you’re comparing anyone who does speak to only certain people on the street as pedophiles… no. It seems like an entirely unhelpful analogy that would only serve to make conversation here even more disrupted. Let’s be honest; the people are saying things to that woman for the exact same reason that the pedophiles are saying things to the little boy. I think that makes it an appropriate analogy. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/307 "2014-10-30T20:40:58Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Let’s be honest; the people are saying things to that woman for the exact same reason that the pedophiles are saying things to the little boy. I think that makes it an appropriate analogy. Let’s, indeed, be honest; do you truly and honestly believe that catcallers and women/pedophiles and small children is an appropriate analogy to make? You wish to hang on your hat on that idea? To say that you consider that there are _no_ differences between the two significant enough to make the comparison moot? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/308 "2014-10-30T20:43:40Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Let’s, indeed, be honest; do you truly and honestly believe that catcallers and women/pedophiles and small children is an appropriate analogy to make? You wish to hang on your hat on that idea? To say that you consider that there are _no_ differences between the two significant enough to make the comparison moot? We have people saying nice things to a person as that person walks down the street. They’re saying the same things for the same reason. It’s the same. If that makes you uncomfortable you may want to examine why, and maybe you will become illuminated. ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/309 "2014-10-30T20:44:40Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > In my view, because the disproportionate risk of harm. You are not harmed in any way whatsoever if you don’t say hello, and neither is the woman. But enough men have used a polite “Hello” as a pretense to something else, and enough women have had bad experiences through such incidental contact that they would rather not risk the slight benefit of a friendly “Hello” versus the possible harm from someone who takes a woman’s friendly reaction to such a greeting as an invitation to more personal intrusions > > Like I said, if you know specific women who have told you they don’t mind it, go ahead, say hi to them. But you don’t know how a stranger feels on the street so don’t talk to them I’m trying to imagine a situation where a “Hello” was an immediate precursor to offensive contact. I’m not saying it hasn’t happened, but it seems like a rather large leap in logic. Man: Hi. Woman: Hello. Man (motorboating the woman): Plbbbbbbbbbbbtttttt! I can see where there would be things that happened in between the initial greeting and the subsequent offensive behavior, but really, is “Hello” where we are drawing the line? ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/310 "2014-10-30T20:47:07Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > We have people saying nice things to a person as that person walks down the street. They’re saying the same things for the same reason. It’s the same. > > If that makes you uncomfortable you may want to examine why, and maybe you will become illuminated. Sometimes people greet others or even give compliments just to be pleasant. I’ve complimented both guys and girls without any intent or desire to have any sort of intimate contact with them. Not everyone thinks with their dicks and/or vaginas. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/311 "2014-10-30T20:47:20Z")
> [@Calatin](#): > > I’m trying to imagine a situation where a “Hello” was an immediate precursor to offensive contact. I’m not saying it hasn’t happened, but it seems like a rather large leap in logic. > > Man: Hi. > Woman: Hello. > Man (motorboating the woman): Plbbbbbbbbbbbtttttt! > > I can see where there would be things that happened in between the initial greeting and the subsequent offensive behavior, but really, is “Hello” where we are drawing the line? As a practical matter though, the fact is that in NYC it is not standard social practice to say “hello” to people who pass you in the street. So while you can quibble with whether someone who is thus addressed has been harrassed, there’s really no reason to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/312 "2014-10-30T20:48:59Z")
> [@Calatin](#): > > Sometimes people greet others or even give compliments just to be pleasant. I’ve complimented both guys and girls without any intent or desire to have any sort of intimate contact with them. > > Not everyone thinks with their dicks and/or vaginas. In my entire life I’ve never had as many strangers try to say hello to me as I walked by as that woman did in that 5 minute video. Also, if you think there was nothing sexual about what they were saying then you are an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/313 "2014-10-30T20:49:53Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > We have people saying nice things to a person as that person walks down the street. They’re saying the same things for the same reason. It’s the same. What is that same reason? > [@](#): > > If that makes you uncomfortable you may want to examine why, and maybe you will become illuminated. How extrospective of you. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/314 "2014-10-30T20:51:05Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > What is that same reason? You’re a smart guy, figure it out. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/315 "2014-10-30T20:51:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’ve already shared that I have visited NYC as a tourist many times, and I _do_ nod and say hello to passersby of both genders… And, I’ve already shared that many of the people who you greeted probably thought it was odd. Anyway, most of the guys “greeting” this woman aren’t nodding and saying hello to passersby of both genders. Did any of them greet the guy with the camera in the backpack? ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/316 "2014-10-30T20:52:22Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > In my entire life I’ve never had as many strangers try to say hello to me as I walked by as that woman did in that 5 minute video. > > Also, if you think there was nothing sexual about what they were saying then you are an idiot. You said that everyone who says hello to anyone else has an ulterior, sexual agenda. I’m merely stating that’s not true. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/317 "2014-10-30T20:53:45Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > You’re a smart guy, figure it out. Given that my argument was that your line of debate was unhelpful; nah. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/318 "2014-10-30T20:55:56Z")
> [@Calatin](#): > > You said that everyone who says hello to anyone else has an ulterior, sexual agenda. I’m merely stating that’s not true. I said no such thing. ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/319 "2014-10-30T20:56:47Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > We have people saying nice things to a person as that person walks down the street. They’re saying the same things for the same reason. It’s the same. Yes, you did. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/320 "2014-10-30T20:56:56Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Given that my argument was that your line of debate was unhelpful; nah. You weren’t convincing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930.md?page=17)