# Shoshana Roberts, a street walker (10 hours,) films herself being "harassed." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 29, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930 "2014-10-29T20:25:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/441 "2014-10-31T17:55:03Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I’m sure you didn’t mean to skip it, but I’ll repeat myself: My rule is default because I am trying to lessen harm. Men are not harmed by not speaking to women on the street. Some women are harmed, or come into harm later, by men harassing them. Therefore, to err on the side of least harm, you default to the women’s preferred behavior You’ve equivocated speaking to women and harassment. That’s nonsensical. Some women will be claimed to be harmed by many actions, male proximity for example. Does this mean you will shelter yourself away from all women? Your posting on this message board probably causes some type of perceived harm to some women. Will you stop posting? What a truly silly way to live life. ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/442 "2014-10-31T17:56:14Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > All you’re doing is dodging issues you can’t answer, which I’m not surprised about. As to your claim, I guess this is the one thread in the Pit where everybody finally agreed that there’s only one possible right outcome. Surprising, I thought it would have been the one about the 4’33. I have answered them. That’s the whole point. You are rehashing matters that have been settled. You say you are trying to reduce harm. So, how would you handle the situation in post #348? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/443 "2014-10-31T18:28:13Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > You’ve equivocated speaking to women and harassment. That’s nonsensical. > > … So many people are having a problem understanding that. You’re absolutely right. Being cordial and polite is never out of line, and a polite "hello"is totally appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/444 "2014-10-31T18:39:19Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > So many people are having a problem understanding that. You’re absolutely right. Being cordial and polite is never out of line, and a polite "hello"is totally appropriate. Only someone who is extremely provincial and unsophisticated woud think this. Different places have different rules of etiquette. Right or wrong, it is a reality. You risk all sorts of unpleasantness by assuming your “polite” is the same as someone else. ---
**Author:** ![babygoat666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@babygoat666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/babygoat666)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/445 "2014-10-31T18:43:22Z")
The OP must be the biggest piece of shit ever. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/446 "2014-10-31T18:50:19Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Only someone who is extremely provincial and unsophisticated woud think this. Different places have different rules of etiquette. Right or wrong, it is a reality. You risk all sorts of unpleasantness by assuming your “polite” is the same as someone else. Yes, I’m sure the mental wards are full of people who couldn’t handle a polite “hello” in passing. Of course, those people probably had plethora of unresolved mental issues to start with. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/447 "2014-10-31T18:51:48Z")
[Shoshana Roberts interviewed.](http://www.salon.com/2014/10/30/woman_in_catcalling_video_tells_cnn_i_was_reliving_past_experiences_of_sexual_assault/) > [@](#): > > “It is a typical day, and it doesn’t even illustrate everything that happens,” Roberts said. “It doesn’t show the times in the past that … my side has been squeezed. It brings up memories in my past, too. I’ve experienced sexual assault, unfortunately, in my past.” > > Roberts went on to cite a recent incident involving a woman who was slashed with a knife for refusing to give a man her phone number, adding that such charged acts of violence make her especially vigilant on the street. And, in reference to the man who followed alongside her for five minutes after she rebuffed his verbal advances, Roberts said she was terrified. > > “I had to keep remembering that I wanted to start a dialogue,” she said. “I was scared out of my mind. … I was reliving past experiences of sexual assault in my mind during those ten hours. It was bringing up these awful memories.” ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/448 "2014-10-31T19:12:19Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Yes, I’m sure the mental wards are full of people who couldn’t handle a polite “hello” in passing. Of course, those people probably had plethora of unresolved mental issues to start with. I said nothing about mental wards, dude. When people talk about social skills, they aren’t merely talking about knowing how to be cordial and polite. Being a “social” person means also knowing when your signs of friendliness are appropriate. Saying “I’m gonna be friendly no matter how anyone feels about it” kind of defeats the point of friendliness–to make friends. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/449 "2014-10-31T21:23:30Z")
If you say hello to me on the street, I’ll get annoyed. But according to these people, I’m wrong to get annoyed. I should have better manners than that. So in effect, they’re both annoying me, _and_ telling me I’m a bad person, _and_ trying to teach me manners. And that’s the _polite_ thing to do? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/450 "2014-10-31T21:39:36Z")
**My Blue Heaven** _15th Stock boy in a row_: Have a nice day! _Vincent ‘Vinnie’ Antonelli_: Fuck You! ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/451 "2014-10-31T21:56:09Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I’ve never been to NYC; is this typical? > > Because of all the other cities I’ve ever visited I’ve never heard that kind of harassment. I don’t mean for me, a male, but others walking around me. I’m sure I would have noticed something. How can you be sure? The thing about this behavior is that it can be very isolating because no one else knows it’s happening. The guy who stood on the side of her for 5 minutes didn’t get anyone’s attention because the only person who knew it was happening was her\*, and she couldn’t do anything about it. Anyone else who even noticed might have thought she knew this guy. Even some of the catcalls are things people hear all the time, but they assume they’re in the right context. If you heard someone yell out ‘Dayum!’, you might think they were celebrating something. Or if you heard someone say, "Hey, beautiful!', you might assume that the person saying that was talking to someone they were friends with. Those are commonplace things to hear so people might filter them out, thinking that they’re in the right context. The only reason you know that catcalls are happening is because you know from the context of the video that the words are not appropriate to the situation. \*it was later revealed that even the camera guy didn’t know it was happening until they saw the video > [@Bricker](#): > > But despite your best attempt to harmonize your position with those of others, the fact remains that there is a difference of opinion as to whether the behavior I describe puts me “in the clear.” We’re all agreed that the recording captures unacceptable behavior. But it also kickstarted a discussion on a comparatively benign practice, one which not all commentators agree upon. That may be a minor point, but since all participants are in agreement on the major point (except the OP, I admit, but I feel his views may be safely disregarded) then discussing the minor points seems appropriate. I’m glad to see that you differentiated the behavior in the video from this discussion, even if that point wasn’t made until page 8 or 9 when the initial point of your discussion started on page 2 with only a very slight change in context from the video where she was specifically not making eye contact to your hypothetical of someone making eye contact. Those are very different situations. That said, even in your hypothetical, you noted that some women you knew didn’t mind while others have pointed out that some women might feel harassed. In your hypothetical of saying ‘hi’ to women who make eye contact with you, what’s the social benefit to women who have a range of emotion from not minding to feeling harassed? You’ve mentioned that you do it because it’s the social norm. The whole idea of the video is to question the social norms about catcalling. Since you’re doing that with your hypothetical, I’m interested in how you think the social benefit in your hypothetical outweighs the potential harm it may cause. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/452 "2014-10-31T21:59:52Z")
Sgt. Ernie Savage: Good morning, Sergeant Major. Sergeant Major Basil Plumley: How do you know what kind of goddamn day it is? Sergeant Ernie Savage: Beautiful morning, Sergeant! Sergeant Major Basil Plumley: What are you a fucking weatherman now? _We Were Soldiers (2002)_ ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/453 "2014-10-31T22:12:46Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > You’ve mentioned that you do it because it’s the social norm. The whole idea of the video is to question the social norms about catcalling. Since you’re doing that with your hypothetical, I’m interested in how you think the social benefit in your hypothetical outweighs the potential harm it may cause. The potential for harm seems tenuous at best. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/454 "2014-10-31T22:22:00Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The potential for harm seems tenuous at best. The social benefit is that the potential for harm seems tenuous to you? If you can’t express a social benefit, why continue to do a behavior where the potential for harm exists at all? ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/455 "2014-10-31T22:29:46Z")
I bought some candy for Halloween, but then I got invited to a party at the last minute. Since i wasn’t going to be home, and I didn’t want to waste the candy, I drove around this afternoon offering kids the candy. A lot of people apparently got upset. WTF? :rolleyes: Oh, and **Kimstu** , before you respond to me with your lame-o “under the roof” lecture, just note that my minivan has a roof. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/456 "2014-10-31T22:35:21Z")
Someone held the door open for me when I was going to the store. RAPE CULTURE! #yesallwomen ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/457 "2014-10-31T22:45:27Z")
Well, look, I’ve studied a lot about anthropology and evolution. I watched the movie “10,000 BC” in the theaters, and I often have the TV tuned to the National Geographic Channel in the background while I’m doing something. And the fact of the matter is that we evolved to be a social, cooperative species, so it’s in our nature to do favors for each other. So, I don’t see why people would get upset about my trying to give their kids candy. Furthermore, I checked with my niece, who is female. And she may be only three, but she’s definitely a smart one. And she happily took the candy from me. So, even the women I know think it’s okay for me to drive around and offer kids candy. ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/458 "2014-10-31T23:07:57Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > Well, look, I’ve studied a lot about anthropology and evolution. I watched the movie “10,000 BC” in the theaters, and I often have the TV tuned to the National Geographic Channel in the background while I’m doing something. And the fact of the matter is that we evolved to be a social, cooperative species, so it’s in our nature to do favors for each other. So, I don’t see why people would get upset about my trying to give their kids candy. > > Furthermore, I checked with my niece, who is female. And she may be only three, but she’s definitely a smart one. And she happily took the candy from me. So, even the women I know think it’s okay for me to drive around and offer kids candy. Where’s the damn ‘like’ button? ---
**Author:** ![emcee2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emcee2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emcee2k)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/459 "2014-10-31T23:22:57Z")
I saw this thread come up a couple days ago and it had a few replies. I read the OP. Right, trolling douche-bag does what trolling douche-bags do. I already know where this thread is going, off to read something else. Yesterday, I see it’s up to eight pages. I click “last page”. You’re now debating whether it’s okay to say hi to someone, or nod. That’s the actual honest-to-God, debate, that’s actually happening. Amazing. You’ve really outdone yourself this time, SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/460 "2014-10-31T23:23:54Z")
> [@slumtrimpet](#): > > Where’s the damn ‘like’ button? Thank you. You get what I’m saying. Why are people worrying about free candy when children are starving to death? I’ve seen those Sally Struther commercials on television, so I have some expertise in this area. Let’s put this in perspective. More children starve to death everyday than died in all World War I’s combined. And people are worried about free candy?? If people really cared about children, then they would actually do something about the starving ones. I often like posts by people on Facebook and other social media sites to show that I’m against children starving to death. And just last week, I honked my horn when I drove by some people on the sidewalk holding signs. I’m not sure that the signs were about starving children, but it’s possible they were. How many people take time out of their day to do those things? No, instead they worry about children getting free candy of all things. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930.md?page=24)