# Shoshana Roberts, a street walker (10 hours,) films herself being "harassed." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 29, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930 "2014-10-29T20:25:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/521 "2014-11-01T17:09:16Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > \*I cannot believe that someone espoused the idea that this woman was dressed suggestively. I’m not sure I want to live on this planet anymore. My husband and I talked about this too. He also suggested that her clothing was inappropriate. I was pissed. I dress that exact same way. My husband is being stupid about this issue. So we’re not allowed to talk about it anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/522 "2014-11-01T17:10:36Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Primarily Bricker’s assertion that it’s always appropriate to say hi to somebody, I guess? (and I guess the opposite assertion, that it’s never appropriate to say hi to a stranger?) I’m not really sure I’m objecting to anything, though…pretty much just agreeing with Monstro’s earlier comment of: well i apologize, i have lost my patience for this thread with all of the people like bricker and ders trihis making excuses i thought you were one of them ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/523 "2014-11-01T17:16:21Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > well i apologize, i have lost my patience for this thread with all of the people like bricker and ders trihis making excuses i thought you were one of them It’s fine. My experiences with message boards, though, is that sometimes you just reach a point where posting and reading in a thread just gets so frustrating that it’s not fun anymore, and that’s the time you just need to throw up your hands and move onto something else. Why give yourself the agita, you know? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/524 "2014-11-01T17:17:58Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > Are you connecting to _everybody_, or just the pretty young women with big boobs? Because that’s really the dividing line here–people who are being friendly with everybody are truly just being friendly, but people who are being friendly with lone women and _only_ the lone women have something else going on. Trying to conflate the two is deluded at best and deliberately disingenuous at worst. > > When I’m having the audacity to parade my tits down the street in a t-shirt,\* and a guy who I’ve seen smiling and greeting everybody he encounters smiles and says “Hi” to me, that’s not creepy or scary or skeevy or threatening. Even if he adds that I have pretty hair or a nice smile or that color looks nice on me, that’s not skeevy. I’m not being singled out, so his compliment is simply a compliment. > > If I’m walking down the street in the exact same outfit, and someone who has been completely silent and ignoring everyone suddenly smiles and says “Hello” to me, I’m automatically wary. It’s skeevy and worrisome because _there has to be some reason he’s singled me out._ There are innocent possible reasons, like he’s mistaken me for someone else or subconsciously associates me with someone he has genuine affection for and has an instinctual urge to be nicer to me than to other people. But there are also a lot of reasons that aren’t innocent, and are likely to lead to unpleasant consequences if I don’t respond the way he wants me to. If I ignore being singled out, I might get called a fat ugly stuck-up bitch who should be grateful people are trying to be nice to me. If I respond politely, this guy might think I’m into him and follow me around trying to get me to go out with him, and become verbally abusive when I keep turning him down. Hell, he might get _physically_ abusive. > > I’ve never had anyone get physical with me in a situation like that, thank Og, but I’ve had guys accuse me of being racist for not agreeing to go out with them while I was engaged, I’ve had guys damn near sprain their necks trying to look down my shirt, I’ve had lots of them “accidentally” brush up against my boob. **And every single last one of those interactions began with someone just offering a friendly greeting that he wasn’t offering everyone else.** > > \*I cannot believe that someone espoused the idea that this woman was dressed suggestively. I’m not sure I want to live on this planet anymore. I wonder how the same people making such defenses would react to people arguing that Bernard didn’t shoot three would be muggers but instead shot three panhandlers because all they did was ask him for five dollars, they didn’t explicitly threaten him. Of course it’s usually understood by everybody that the “you got five dollars” was meant as an excuse to engage and rob him. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/525 "2014-11-01T17:22:33Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > It’s fine. My experiences with message boards, though, is that sometimes you just reach a point where posting and reading in a thread just gets so frustrating that it’s not fun anymore, and that’s the time you just need to throw up your hands and move onto something else. Why give yourself the agita, you know? true that… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/526 "2014-11-01T17:31:22Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Just for clarity, _ **ALL** _ people in this thread have agreed that those guys in the film were rude monsters. The subject shifted to a polite greeting in passing, without any attempt to impede the progress of or insult the other person. Just for clarity, the first 3/4 of my post address the differences in perception that can go with a polite greeting in passing. If someone’s politely greeting everyone, that’s great. Not harassment or otherwise worrisome in any way at all, even if it’s outside the norm for a particular setting. If someone’s ignoring most people but politely greeting women walking by themselves…that’s a whole lot less great. There is something beyond simple generalized friendliness going on there, something that’s causing these particular people to get singled out. That something deserves to be looked at and talked about rather than hand-waved away. Look, it’s disconcerting to be singled out, even for known benign reasons. It’s a hell of a lot more disconcerting to be singled out for unknown reasons that may lead to harassment and verbal and/or physical abuse. Even if the interaction turns out to be nothing more, there’s still that moment of “What fresh hell is this leading to” disquiet, that instinct to keep half an eye on the guy as he passes to make sure he’s not going to double back on you. And that’s not harmless. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/527 "2014-11-01T17:54:03Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > My husband and I talked about this too. He also suggested that her clothing was inappropriate. I was pissed. I dress that exact same way. Yeah, I found those comments (both here and on Youtube) just absolutely bizarre. There’s nothing lascivious about that outfit whatsoever except, what, she’s showing off her forearms? That just looks like a normal, regular everyday outfit to me. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/528 "2014-11-01T18:24:24Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > Are you connecting to _everybody_, or just the pretty young women with big boobs? Because that’s really the dividing line here–people who are being friendly with everybody are truly just being friendly, but people who are being friendly with lone women and _only_ the lone women have something else going on. Trying to conflate the two is deluded at best and deliberately disingenuous at worst. Everybody. When I pass a person, regardless of the person’s age or possession of an X and Y chromosone. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/529 "2014-11-01T18:27:05Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Please explain how your innocent, ‘Hi’ is to be distinguished from the ‘Hi’, that is nothing but an opening line, wherein the slightest glance, or hint of acknowledgement, and the creeper ups his game, to, ‘How you doing?’, and is now trailing the girl and chatting her up? > > Women are supposed to be polite to every street comment thrown their way, on the off chance it’s just an innocent ‘Hi’? > > How can you ignore the obvious again, and again? If your question is intended for me, I’m not sure how you’re imputing to me the position that “Women are supposed to be polite to every street comment.” As I believe I made clear above, my position is that saying “Hi,” is not impolite, and that an unsolicited “Hi” is not entitled to any response, not do I particularly expect one. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/530 "2014-11-01T18:29:06Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I wonder how the same people making such defenses would react to people arguing that Bernard didn’t shoot three would be muggers but instead shot three panhandlers because all they did was ask him for five dollars, they didn’t explicitly threaten him. > > Of course it’s usually understood by everybody that the “you got five dollars” was meant as an excuse to engage and rob him. What is the story that’s being alluded to here? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/531 "2014-11-01T18:29:13Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > well then you are either a liar or insane. you seem quite lucid so the only option is liar. That’s a bold assertion, and an example of the fallacy of the excluded middle to boot. Where do you this “overwhelming” opposition may be documented? Am i simply to trust you that it exists? And my unwillingness to do that makes me a liar or insane? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/532 "2014-11-01T18:30:29Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > My husband and I talked about this too. He also suggested that her clothing was inappropriate. I was pissed. I dress that exact same way. > > My husband is being stupid about this issue. So we’re not allowed to talk about it anymore. I thought it was particularly bizarre that one or two people above emphasized that her t-shirt is _crew-neck_, as though that somehow makes it even more racy?! ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/533 "2014-11-01T18:32:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > is not entitled to any response, not do I particularly expect one. I can say a little more about why I find this unbelievable. It’s not exactly a contradiction in terms, but it’s a kind of pragmatic contradiction. By saying hi you are initiating a social interaction. But to initiate a social interaction while at the very same expecting no social response is… well, impossible. If you’re expecting no social response, then whatever you intend to do, you’re not intending to initiate a social interaction. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/534 "2014-11-01T18:48:33Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > What is the story that’s being alluded to here? [Bernard Goetz](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Goetz). Approached by four black teenagers on an empty subway, he emptied his (illegal) weapon into them, injuring them all (and paralyzing one). He was acquitted of attempted murder by an NYC jury. The incident began when one of the youths said “how are you?” and Goetz replied, “fine.” The teenager then asked him for five dollars and Goetz opened fire. \ ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/535 "2014-11-01T19:30:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Everybody. When I pass a person, regardless of the person’s age or possession of an X and Y chromosone. Then you’re almost certainly not creeping women out, unless you’re staring at their breasts while you greet them. It doesn’t necessarily follow, however, that all of the other men who are simply greeting and passing on are similarly engaging in general friendliness and not creeping women out. Some of the ones who are “just being friendly” are indeed being skeeves of varying levels. That makes automatically defending someone because all they did was say “hi” a problematic position, because some of the people you’re defending are engaging in problematic behavior. That’s where the blowback is coming from. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/536 "2014-11-01T19:56:45Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I can say a little more about why I find this unbelievable. It’s not exactly a contradiction in terms, but it’s a kind of pragmatic contradiction. By saying hi you are initiating a social interaction. But to initiate a social interaction while at the very same expecting no social response is… well, impossible. If you’re expecting no social response, then whatever you intend to do, you’re not intending to initiate a social interaction. It’s not impossible. What I am doing is extending an invitation to return a social response. I am perfectly sanguine to have observers accept the invitation or ignore it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/537 "2014-11-01T19:58:16Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > Then you’re almost certainly not creeping women out, unless you’re staring at their breasts while you greet them. It doesn’t necessarily follow, however, that all of the other men who are simply greeting and passing on are similarly engaging in general friendliness and not creeping women out. Some of the ones who are “just being friendly” are indeed being skeeves of varying levels. That makes automatically defending someone because all they did was say “hi” a problematic position, because some of the people you’re defending are engaging in problematic behavior. That’s where the blowback is coming from. But I’m not automatically defending every person who said “hi.” That’s an unwarranted inference. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/538 "2014-11-01T20:55:50Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > This being the Dope, I gotta say - WTF? :dubious: > > A simple Google search with the terms “how many people die of starvation every day” leads to a highlighted result from [poverty.com](http://poverty.com): > > I’ve no idea what the hell “died in all World War I’s combined” is actually meant to convey, but taking it as probably meaning to include civilian and military deaths, a [reasoned estimate](http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/World_War_I_casualties.html) puts the total killed at around 37 million. Even on a daily averaged basis you’d still be incorrect (1 August 1914 to 11 November 1918 = 1564 days; 37,000,000 / 1564 = 23,657 killed daily in WW1). Well, look. I’ve watched the movie Lawerence of Arabia almost all the way through to the end. It wasn’t in the theatres, but I think we can all agree that this gives me the necessary expertise to speak authoratively on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/539 "2014-11-01T21:02:39Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Hm. When I was 5 my Pre-K teacher read us a book entitled, “Never talk to strangers”. When I was 8 I attended an assembly where we were told that sometimes Bad Men would entice kids with candy and treats, then physically _force them into their car_. As an adult I learned that while compliance has a role in self defense, you should very much avoid being taken from point A to point B, even if you are staring at a gun. > > Approach a house with a group of kids and even if 1 is grabbed, the rest can run away and report the location. Not so with a mobile car. > > Anyway, you triggered people’s spider sense: their thoughts may have been less detailed. Now you know. I didn’t ask the kids to get in my car. I just offered them candy from my car. What I did was no different than what Food Truck’s do everyday (and I eat at a food truck at least once a month, so I’m qualified to talk about this). I wonder how many of these parents would have gotten upset about a food truck?? I’m also quite familiar with Halloween customs, having watched It’s the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown almost three times. And according to Halloween customs, kids wearing costumes are expecting free candy. Choices have consequences, and honest parents should acknowledge that, rather than trying to make life consequence free (which is what the parents were trying to do to me here). ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/540 "2014-11-01T21:52:20Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > I didn’t ask the kids to get in my car. I just offered them candy from my car. What I did was no different than what Food Truck’s do everyday (and I eat at a food truck at least once a month, so I’m qualified to talk about this). I wonder how many of these parents would have gotten upset about a food truck?? > > I’m also quite familiar with Halloween customs, having watched It’s the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown almost three times. And according to Halloween customs, kids wearing costumes are expecting free candy. Choices have consequences, and honest parents should acknowledge that, rather than trying to make life consequence free (which is what the parents were trying to do to me here). This is a parody, right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930.md?page=28)