# Shoshana Roberts, a street walker (10 hours,) films herself being "harassed." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 29, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930 "2014-10-29T20:25:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/61 "2014-10-29T23:21:58Z")
The way she is walking and her body language and facial expression read to me like someone who doesn’t want to be talked to. She also looks to me like someone who’s having a shitty day. So, I wouldn’t talk to her (unless it was an emergency or something like “watch out for that car”) because she reads to me like someone who doesn’t want to be talked to. And I wouldn’t tell her to smile, because I have no idea why she’s having a shitty day (maybe someone died?) and telling her to smile could be really inconsiderate. But I generally don’t talk to strangers unless there’s a reason for it (emergency, networking event, party at my friend’s house, etc.). ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/62 "2014-10-29T23:24:54Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Prior disgusting threads by the sexist OP: > > [I'm confounded that no one is asking about the two ABORTIONS that Wendy Davis had. Is she a liar? - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=735890) > > [I pit the pig that is Monica Lewinsky, over some pork chops on the barbie (BBQ) - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=727440) > > [The slattern, provocateur, saboteur, seductress who tempted a man off the road and into a pole. - Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=719515) Thank you. I didn’t recognize the OP’s username, but those sure do put this thread topic into perspective. For the record, I concur with the 2nd paragraph in the post from **mischievous** : having that shit happen all day every day (or even just frequently) wears you down in a way that’s hard to understand if you don’t experience it yourself. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/63 "2014-10-29T23:34:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But in this situation, the various players are not acting in concert with one another. It’s absurd to contend that a man who smiles pleasantly at a pedestrian and says, “Good morning,” is harassing her because others will (or have) also spoken to her. You’re right. It’s like expecting a coin to remember whether it came up heads or tails on a previous flip, so you can say there was something beyond coincidence when you get ten heads in a row. However, when a woman can’t walk down the street without men treating her like she’s on display, something is going on. They may not be acting in concert, but there is a cultural expectation-- or lack of one, that permits this, and that’s why a woman feels harassed. Regarding the guy who seemed to pleasantly say “Have a nice day,” and how some people think that’s different from the overt comments on her appearance: why her? he did not say “Have a nice day!” to everyone he passed, and he certainly didn’t say it to any men, so something is going on, beyond well-wishing. He’s not just a guy trying to spread a little sunshine. He’s singling out young, attractive women who are alone, and that is wrong. He could be offering them coupons for free bagels, or asking them if they could adopt a puppy, or hitting them up for spare change, it wouldn’t matter: he’s singling them out for appearance, gender, and what he supposes is their status regarding attachment. So, the “Have a nice day!” is not so neutral. Because he says that to women only of a certain appearance, it becomes a comment on her appearance. Anyone who pretends otherwise is being disingenuous. When men think that the way a woman looks to him is an invitation to strike up a conversation, even when she is a complete stranger, that’s a culture of harassment, or a culture that condones harassment, or something. I haven’t quite got my slogan together, but men should not feel free to talk to any random woman they want _and then be offended if she chooses not to respond_. Moreover, men shouldn’t feel compelled to comment on the appearance of every woman who crosses their line of vision, because women are not there for the pleasure or amusement of men. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/64 "2014-10-29T23:44:51Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > I haven’t quite got my slogan together, but men should not feel free to talk to any random woman they want _and then be offended if she chooses not to respond_. Moreover, men shouldn’t feel compelled to comment on the appearance of every woman who crosses their line of vision, because women are not there for the pleasure or amusement of men. I agree. But the “and” is important. Men SHOULD feel free to talk to random women, but they should feel no entitlement to a response, and should not feel offended if ignored. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/65 "2014-10-29T23:47:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I agree. > > But the “and” is important. Men SHOULD feel free to talk to random women, but they should feel no entitlement to a response, and should not feel offended if ignored. Men should not feel okay about saying “smile” or “damn!” or “you look good” and similar to strange young women (not that you’re saying this). Do you disagree? ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/66 "2014-10-29T23:48:12Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > “Those are love sonnets.” — _Kstarnes, demonstrating his ability to persevere despite mild mental retardation_ Do you really not realize how offensive this post is? This is as bad as anything the OP has posted. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/67 "2014-10-29T23:50:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I agree. > > But the “and” is important. Men SHOULD feel free to talk to random women, but they should feel no entitlement to a response, and should not feel offended if ignored. I don’t know what you mean by “feel free.” I assume you’re not talking about legislation. But talking to people who don’t want to be talked to is boorish and rude (unless it’s something like an emergency). And it seems to me that given how many women usually express frustration with random men talking to them all the time when they’re just trying to go about their business, then it’s probably more likely than not that talking to strange women on the street is going to be boorish and rude. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/68 "2014-10-29T23:50:46Z")
Seems they edited out most of the white dudes. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/69 "2014-10-29T23:57:36Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Do you really not realize how offensive this post is? This is as bad as anything the OP has posted. That just how Lobohan is. Ignore him. Getting offended validates him. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/70 "2014-10-29T23:59:18Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Men should not feel okay about saying “smile” or “damn!” or “you look good” and similar to strange young women (not that you’re saying this). Do you disagree? I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/71 "2014-10-30T00:00:31Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > I don’t know what you mean by “feel free.” I assume you’re not talking about legislation. But talking to people who don’t want to be talked to is boorish and rude (unless it’s something like an emergency). > > And it seems to me that given how many women usually express frustration with random men talking to them all the time when they’re just trying to go about their business, then it’s probably more likely than not that talking to strange women on the street is going to be boorish and rude. I don’t agree. A brief “Good morning,” is not rude or boorish. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/72 "2014-10-30T00:07:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t agree. A brief “Good morning,” is not rude or boorish. If I knew someone didn’t want the “good morning,” then yes, it would be boorish and rude of me to go ahead and do it. If a lot of women are telling me that they don’t like constantly getting talked at by strangers, then I am boorish and rude if I’m not willing to take that into account before I go around wishing “good morning” to strangers. I’m not saying “good morning” must be boorish and rude, but it’s clear that there are a lot of circumstances where this sort of interaction makes people uncomfortable, and it’s boorish and rude not to recognize that. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/73 "2014-10-30T00:10:21Z")
I’ve never been to NYC; is this typical? Because of all the other cities I’ve ever visited I’ve never heard that kind of harassment. I don’t mean for me, a male, but others walking around me. I’m sure I would have noticed something. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/74 "2014-10-30T00:17:47Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > Here’s my question for the “they’re just paying a compliment!” people: How many random, male, unknown-to-you passersby (i.e. not a cashier) do you pay a compliment on their looks or wish a nice evening in a random day? I’m a tall, broad-shouldered male with a brisk walking pace, and my lifetime number is in the high teens, I’d bet. It just doesn’t happen with any regularity, and let’s not kid ourselves about what the intent of the compliment was. It’s like the Pulp Fiction line: “Would you give a man a foot massage?” I’m skipping the nice evening thing, because that happens all the time around here, especially if the person saying it is older. They’re friendly and bored. But as for the compliment thing–you’re right. That’s rare. But when I think about it, every time it has happened, it’s made me feel really good. I think that may be the issue. To me, even getting complimented about my looks is a great compliment that will make me feel good. So of course I expect that’s the same for everyone else. I think that may be the issue with a lot of things. I bet even catcallers think that they would like it if they catcalled. Especially if by someone as hot as they think they are. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/75 "2014-10-30T00:25:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Men should not feel okay about saying “smile” or “damn!” or “you look good” and similar to strange young women (not that you’re saying this). Do you disagree? I was standing in line a few days back, and a pretty young lady with beautiful green eyes was in front of me. Are you saying it would have been improper for me to compliment her on her pretty eyes? I hardly consider that that would have been harassment. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/76 "2014-10-30T00:26:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Where did she overstate her case? What did she do wrong? She was an actress hired to walk for 10 hours and be filmed. If they highlighted the examples that were further on the spectrum of bad behavior like the guy following her, and less on the people saying “have a nice day” or “How you doin” then it would place more emphasis on the bad behavior. By including borderline interaction along with the clearly bad ones, it weakens the whole message. I only watched the linked 2 minute “highlights” of the 10 hours of footage. If they included such weak examples in the highlight reel, I doubt the magnitude of the occurrences. Consider this - when we see that many examples, they get evaluated to their relative merit. It’s happening in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/77 "2014-10-30T00:30:17Z")
[This comic](http://www.happyjar.com/comic/attention/) makes a relevant point nicely. Often the “it’s a compliment” people will think if women were doing this to them, they (the men) would feel good about it.\* But that’s not the right equivalence! It’s not women doing the catcalling, it’s men. So the “it’s a compliment” people should be thinking about a situation in which _random, strange men_ are constantly “complimenting” them. Feels different in that case. \*Not that this is actually relevant, but it’s a consideration that often comes up. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/78 "2014-10-30T00:32:02Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I was standing in line a few days back, and a pretty young lady with beautiful green eyes was in front of me. Are you saying it would have been improper for me to compliment her on her pretty eyes? I hardly consider that that would have been harassment. Uh, yeah. I think it would be improper. For sure. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/79 "2014-10-30T00:32:41Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > If they highlighted the examples that were further on the spectrum of bad behavior like the guy following her, and less on the people saying “have a nice day” or “How you doin” then it would place more emphasis on the bad behavior. By including borderline interaction along with the clearly bad ones, it weakens the whole message. I only watched the linked 2 minute “highlights” of the 10 hours of footage. If they included such weak examples in the highlight reel, I doubt the magnitude of the occurrences. > > Consider this - when we see that many examples, they get evaluated to their relative merit. It’s happening in this thread. You have to realize that the “have a nice day” and “how you don’” stuff is right there in the mix, experienced as of a piece with the other stuff. Less severe? Maybe, but not necessarily, and even if so, still wrong. Not including such examples would give the wrong impression that such behavior is okay. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/80 "2014-10-30T00:33:51Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I was standing in line a few days back, and a pretty young lady with beautiful green eyes was in front of me. Are you saying it would have been improper for me to compliment her on her pretty eyes? I hardly consider that that would have been harassment. Jesus god christ. Come on. That is _completely rapey_. You’ve been scaring women with this kind of behavior. It doesn’t matter whether you feel like they should be scared or not. _You’re scaring them_. Now what does a good person do upon learning this about themselves? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930.md?page=5)