# Shoshana Roberts, a street walker (10 hours,) films herself being "harassed." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 29, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930 "2014-10-29T20:25:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/81 "2014-10-30T00:40:00Z")
It’s really pretty fucking simple. If this were your wife/girlfriend/sister/daughter/mother, what would you think of this sort of thing regularly happening to her? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/82 "2014-10-30T00:44:03Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Jesus god christ. Come on. That is _completely rapey_. > > You’ve been scaring women with this kind of behavior. It doesn’t matter whether you feel like they should be scared or not. _You’re scaring them_. Now what does a good person do upon learning this about themselves? I guess I’ll just put my hand on my hip, and screech “Oh my god I love your purse girlfriend, is it a Coach?” Surely they won’t mind that. ETA. if it was my wife, daughter girlfriend, I’d take it as a complement if someone said she had beautiful eyes. That’s far from harassment. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/83 "2014-10-30T00:52:40Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > ETA. > if it was my wife, daughter girlfriend, I’d take it as a complement if someone said she had beautiful eyes. That’s far from harassment. That wasn’t directed at your post (or even the OP, since he’s obviously just trolling), it was more directed at the thread and subject in general. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/84 "2014-10-30T00:55:08Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > If I knew someone didn’t want the “good morning,” then yes, it would be boorish and rude of me to go ahead and do it. > > If a lot of women are telling me that they don’t like constantly getting talked at by strangers, then I am boorish and rude if I’m not willing to take that into account before I go around wishing “good morning” to strangers. I’m not saying “good morning” must be boorish and rude, but it’s clear that there are a lot of circumstances where this sort of interaction makes people uncomfortable, and it’s boorish and rude not to recognize that. The idea that you must accommodate even the unreasonable people is not one everyone shares. You aren’t a special snowflake who gets to preemptively end all social interactions with everyone else because something makes you feel bad. The compliment thing is reasonable, because it is indeed not something people generally do. Expecting people not to be generally friendly and greet you in passing? I’m sorry, but that’s about as ridiculous as ZPG thinking men shouldn’t offer their hands for a handshake. A greeting is an offering. You can respond to it or not. If it makes you feel harassed, your sensitivity level is set too high. It is unreasonable for everyone else to try to predict who is unreasonably sensitive. A greeting to a stranger is not rude. It doesn’t become rude because a lot of people do it. Yes, it may annoy you if you get it a lot and are in an asocial mood. The world doesn’t revolve around your moods though. At least, that’s my opinion. I know that New York City is pretty much a whole other nation. But my understanding is that you are more tolerant of rudeness, not less tolerant towards politeness. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/85 "2014-10-30T01:02:50Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The idea that you must accommodate even the unreasonable people is not one everyone shares. You aren’t a special snowflake who gets to preemptively end all social interactions with everyone else because something makes you feel bad. Blah, blah, blah. I didn’t propose ending all social interaction. > [@](#): > > The compliment thing is reasonable, because it is indeed not something people generally do. Expecting people not to be generally friendly and greet you in passing? I’m sorry, but that’s about as ridiculous as ZPG thinking men shouldn’t offer their hands for a handshake. Blah, blah, blah. I didn’t say I expected people to not be generally friendly. > [@](#): > > A greeting is an offering. You can respond to it or not. If it makes you feel harassed, your sensitivity level is set too high. It is unreasonable for everyone else to try to predict who is unreasonably sensitive. Hey, people are telling you they feel harassed. And lots of people are telling you that. But because you are a special snowflake, you feel free to ignore what a lot of people are telling you, just so you can blunder through life. > [@](#): > > A greeting to a stranger is not rude. It doesn’t become rude because a lot of people do it. Yes, it may annoy you if you get it a lot and are in an asocial mood. The world doesn’t revolve around your moods though. Yet, you seem to think the world revolves around you. > [@](#): > > At least, that’s my opinion. I know that New York City is pretty much a whole other nation. But my understanding is that you are more tolerant of rudeness, not less tolerant towards politeness. And my understanding is that you are a narcissistic tool who is incapable of putting themselves in someone else’s shoes. Or reading what I post accurately. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/86 "2014-10-30T01:03:12Z")
This isn’t hard. Catcalls are obnoxious and sometimes scary. Don’t do them. If your friends or family do them, call them out. Thad really as complex as it needs to be. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/87 "2014-10-30T01:04:51Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Jesus god christ. Come on. That is _completely rapey_. “Completely rapey”? What the heck does that mean? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/88 "2014-10-30T01:11:45Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The idea that you must accommodate even the unreasonable people is not one everyone shares. You aren’t a special snowflake who gets to preemptively end all social interactions with everyone else because something makes you feel bad. > > The compliment thing is reasonable, because it is indeed not something people generally do. Expecting people not to be generally friendly and greet you in passing? I’m sorry, but that’s about as ridiculous as ZPG thinking men shouldn’t offer their hands for a handshake. > > A greeting is an offering. You can respond to it or not. If it makes you feel harassed, your sensitivity level is set too high. It is unreasonable for everyone else to try to predict who is unreasonably sensitive. > > A greeting to a stranger is not rude. It doesn’t become rude because a lot of people do it. Yes, it may annoy you if you get it a lot and are in an asocial mood. The world doesn’t revolve around your moods though. > > At least, that’s my opinion. I know that New York City is pretty much a whole other nation. But my understanding is that you are more tolerant of rudeness, not less tolerant towards politeness. Thank heavens you’re here to mansplain this to all us snowflake ladies. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/89 "2014-10-30T01:12:44Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > This isn’t hard. Catcalls are obnoxious and sometimes scary. Don’t do them. If your friends or family do them, call them out. Thad really as complex as it needs to be. Is “Good morning” a catcall? How about “Have a nice day!” Or, “Wow, you have pretty eyes!” ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/90 "2014-10-30T01:14:14Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I guess I’ll just put my hand on my hip, and screech “Oh my god I love your purse girlfriend, is it a Coach?” Surely they won’t mind that. > > ETA. > if it was my wife, daughter girlfriend, I’d take it as a complement if someone said she had beautiful eyes. That’s far from harassment. If a 80-year-old woman said I had the most beautiful eyes, I would smile and say thank you and quickly forget about the incident. But if a 40-something guy paid me this compliment, hell fucking yeah I would be creeped out. Now if the guy complimented me on my shoes or my bag or my haircut, I’d feel flattered. But once he starts talking about actual body parts, it’s moved from “isn’t he sweet” to “he’s trying to jump my bones”. For some reason, lots of guys feel compelled to tell women how beautiful they are. It’s almost as if they feel that every woman they see has low self-esteem and so it’s their job to boost it. But a compliment _isn’t_ just a compliment, because nothing is free in this world. A random guy who says “You’re looking good today” _wants_ something from you. Even if he’s fine with just a smile, he still wants something from you that you may not want to give him. I had to remind my father of this one day when he expressed to me how angry he gets when he tries to do something nice for women (like take their shopping cart to the corral for them) and they reject him. I asked him if he would like it if I said “yes” to every strange guy who pulled a nice guy act on me. Of course he said no. Not father wants his daughter to be the type who says “yes” easily. And a woman who smiles at every guy who smiles or catcalls or compliments is in effect saying that she wants more. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/91 "2014-10-30T01:19:23Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > Each individual is not harrassing her, yet she would feel harrassed. Well, sure. But feelings do not always coincide with reality. How often have we seen people who felt insulted on this board when no one was insulting them? The question is whether she is really being harassed. My proposal is that, if the people are doing something rude, then, sure, they may be contributing to harassment. If they are doing something genuinely polite, with no ulterior motive, then, no matter how many there are, it isn’t harassment. No matter how many times you add 0 to 0, you still get 0. Something needs to be at least rude to add up to harassment. Of course, I’d argue that there were not only rude people in the clip, people who were actually being harassing. In fact, I saw maybe a couple regular greetings. But that’s still more than should be in a video that’s supposed to be highlighting the harassment. They should not be lumped in with the rest. (Do note my other comments were not about the video, but general statements about what is and isn’t acceptable. Most greetings in the video clearly have a slight catcall quality to them, which makes them different from the friendly greetings I said should be acceptable.) ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/92 "2014-10-30T01:30:46Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The question is whether she is really being harassed. My proposal is that, if the people are doing something rude, then, sure, they may be contributing to harassment. If they are doing something genuinely polite, with no ulterior motive, then, no matter how many there are, it isn’t harassment. No matter how many times you add 0 to 0, you still get 0. Something needs to be at least rude to add up to harassment. If, over the course of 10 hours, you got 100 telemarketing calls, with a range in tone from outright scams, calls from businesses you deal with legitimately, to entirely worthy charities, I would be willing to bet that by the end of the day, even the muscular dystrophy guys are getting told to fuck off. Now imagine if they’re right in front of you, and some percentage of them might want to physically harm you. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/93 "2014-10-30T01:32:49Z")
When I lived in China, I could not walk down the street without some dude calling out “Hello!” Sometimes it was a nice, friendly hello. Or it could be just to make me look. Or a mocking hello, like “Hellllllllloooooooooooooooooo?!” Or just a shout at the foreigner. There were a thousand ways to say hello, and it was kind of amusing for a little while. After a short while, all these fucking idiots saying hello at least 40 times a day - I’m not exaggerating in the least - was like Chinese water torture. Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! And then when you’ve had enough, you would hear: Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! So you can’t help but feeling that you can’t go outside without hearing the same damn thing, every damned day. Over and over and over. So, men, just because three or five friendly people may say hello to you each day as you walk to work doesn’t mean that you know what it’s like to be the object of annoying behavior. You have no fucking clue, and you ought to walk a mile in someone else’s shoes. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/94 "2014-10-30T01:33:13Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Prior disgusting threads by the sexist OP: > > [I'm confounded that no one is asking about the two ABORTIONS that Wendy Davis had. Is she a liar? - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=735890) > > [I pit the pig that is Monica Lewinsky, over some pork chops on the barbie (BBQ) - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=727440) > > [The slattern, provocateur, saboteur, seductress who tempted a man off the road and into a pole. - Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=719515) Wow. He never had a single date in high school did he? ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/95 "2014-10-30T01:36:19Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > When I lived in China, I could not walk down the street without some dude calling out “Hello!” > > Sometimes it was a nice, friendly hello. Or it could be just to make me look. Or a mocking hello, like “Hellllllllloooooooooooooooooo?!” Or just a shout at the foreigner. There were a thousand ways to say hello, and it was kind of amusing for a little while. > > After a short while, all these fucking idiots saying hello at least 40 times a day - I’m not exaggerating in the least - was like Chinese water torture. Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! > > And then when you’ve had enough, you would hear: Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! > > So you can’t help but feeling that you can’t go outside without hearing the same damn thing, every damned day. Over and over and over. > > So, men, just because three or five friendly people may say hello to you each day as you walk to work doesn’t mean that you know what it’s like to be the object of annoying behavior. You have no fucking clue, and you ought to walk a mile in someone else’s shoes. That must have been grating. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/96 "2014-10-30T01:39:23Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Talking to someone is not asserting dominance. Shit, even if one of the guys just really wants to make sexy time and asks her if she’s interested that’s not asserting dominance. It’s unlikely to be successful, but it aint harassment. > [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t agree. A brief “Good morning,” is not rude or boorish. > [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t typically compliment anyone unknown to me on their looks, but if I make eye contact with a passerby, male or female, I will typically nod and say “Morning!” or “Hey,” or some other brief set of syllables to acknowledge the humanity we share. There’s a clear and obvious difference between, say, giving a short, friendly hello to a person with whom you make eye contact on a mostly empty sidewalk, and a hello given to someone with whom you haven’t engaged on a crowded street. It may be hard to describe how the context is different, but I think it’s pretty clear. The lesson is not “never say hello to women,” but rather “don’t single out women for interaction because of their gender/age.” > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Question: The other day, I bought bus tickets from NJ Transit and the cashier told me - completely out of the blue - that he liked my belt. > > Was I harrassed? > > Now suppose it happened to a woman. Was she harrassed? Depends on a lot. There’s so much undefined about that situation. Tone of voice, inflection, word choice, body language . . . these are all things that are of vital importance. Making equivalences like this is not possible, and willfully ignores what is the actual issue at hand. On the surface, though, I’d say no. Hypothetical woman is having intentional communication with the cashier. A short, “hey, I like your belt; cool buckle,” or something is probably fine, regardless of gender. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/97 "2014-10-30T01:40:56Z")
Too bad New York City doesn’t allow this woman to carry a gun, so she has to feel threatened by all those lowlives and thugs harassing her. I bet that guy walking next to her would have backed off in a hurry if he saw the imprint of a Glock under her skintight jeans. All this really proves is that New York City is a cesspool that’s full of these people. I’m a 6’2" 200 lb guy and I get people harassing me like that when I walk through certain parts of New York. Not sexually, but just bored, obnoxious jackasses with nothing better to do than fuck with and intimidate passerby. It is definitely fucking obnoxious, but I would interpret it primarily as an indication of how big, liberal cities are unpleasant shitholes. I note that most of the harassers are, shall we say, likely Democrat voters? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/98 "2014-10-30T01:46:20Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The question is whether she is really being harassed. My proposal is that, if the people are doing something rude, then, sure, they may be contributing to harassment. If they are doing something genuinely polite, with no ulterior motive, then, no matter how many there are, it isn’t harassment. No matter how many times you add 0 to 0, you still get 0. Something needs to be at least rude to add up to harassment. When I was 16, I worked at Six Flags. One day while I was sweeping up funnel cake crumbs, I bumped into a guest who must have been 7 feet tall. He was the tallest guy I’d ever seen before. I exclaimed, “Have you ever played basketball before? You’re SO TALL!” The guy didn’t miss a beat. “Like no one has ever told me that before! How original!” I was instantly embarrassed. If I had been the only person who had ever asked about him playing basketball, it would have been unreasonable for him to get so irritated with me. But I was no doubt the eleventy-billionth person. The eleventy-billionth _anything_ is always annoying. So now when I see a very tall person, I control myself. I don’t make “tall” jokes or ask stupid questions about the air up there. I try to treat tall people just like I would anyone else. Because that’s how I want to be treated. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/99 "2014-10-30T01:47:51Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I was standing in line a few days back, and a pretty young lady with beautiful green eyes was in front of me. Are you saying it would have been improper for me to compliment her on her pretty eyes? I hardly consider that that would have been harassment. I’m a guy and I wouldn’t have made such a comment and would have found it rude if I saw it being done. ---
**Author:** ![DingoelGringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@DingoelGringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DingoelGringo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930/100 "2014-10-30T01:49:41Z")
> [@kstarnes](#): > > [Woman receives rape threats after recording 10 hours of harassment in New York | Women | The Guardian](http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/oct/29/woman-records-10-hours-of-harassment-walking-through-new-york#comments) > > Along the way she is complimented and greeted by many men (some 27 by my account, not nearly the 100 claimed.) Some of them even express their own insecurities, one gentleman asked, “do you think I’m ugly? I’m ugly right?” > > Another walked alongside her hoping to catch her attention, she pays him no heed. > > Not seen: > -Not once was she touched. > > Some questions to consider: > > 1. Do people have the right to occupy public space without sharing it with other people? > 2. IF you share public space with others, do they have the right to look at you? To greet you? Even to compliment the way you look? NOr did anyone say anything down right degrading such as "Show us your T##S, nor even “GIve me a kiss.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoshana-roberts-a-street-walker-10-hours-films-herself-being-harassed/702930.md?page=6)