# Shot himself in the face cleaning his rifle **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 17, 2015, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shot-himself-in-the-face-cleaning-his-rifle/715202 "2015-03-17T14:38:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![keturah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e95f7d/32.png) [@keturah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keturah)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shot-himself-in-the-face-cleaning-his-rifle/715202/41 "2015-03-18T04:37:06Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Not _reliably_ sufficient. It _can_ do the job, but only if you aim it just right, otherwise, it’s deformity and too many surgeries. > > I have an acquaintance whose father successfully killed himself with an pellet/BB gun. Probably an outlier, but stuff happens. Do you ever get tired of telling tall tales? Your pet points got lost long ago when your exaggerating and outright lying became apparent. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shot-himself-in-the-face-cleaning-his-rifle/715202/42 "2015-03-18T05:42:38Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > That does make the most sense. > > There was another patient on the same show – a little kid who had been shot in the pelvis. They didn’t get into how that might have happened. Well that one is really easy. Put the gun in a pocket or waste band without a holster and play quick draw. The trigger gets pulled while the gun is pulled out. Extremely easy to do. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shot-himself-in-the-face-cleaning-his-rifle/715202/43 "2015-03-18T05:51:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Well that one is really easy. Put the gun in a pocket or waste band without a holster and play quick draw. The trigger gets pulled while the gun is pulled out. Extremely easy to do. And it would be a shame to see such a thing go to **waste**. . . . (Especially in a band.) ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shot-himself-in-the-face-cleaning-his-rifle/715202/44 "2015-03-18T06:36:50Z")
Which is the bigger idiot - the guy looking down a barrel after pulling the trigger, or the parent who lights the mortar-type fireworks and then stands over it when it doesn’t ignite instantly? Upon reflection: the person who tries suicide by long arm under chin, but does not point it backwards - thereby blowing off his face but leaving most of the brain intact. Q: it runs in my mind that a pair of fellows (UK?) who had musical stardom (very briefly) decide to do simultaneous suicides by shotgun - but did not tilt the muzzle. One of the poor slobs survived long enough to squirrel away enough pain meds to finally finish the job. Anybody know of such a case? ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shot-himself-in-the-face-cleaning-his-rifle/715202/45 "2015-03-18T09:58:30Z")
> [@Daylate](#): > > I go you one better. The gun is always loaded, period. It doesn’t matter that I may have just taken the cartridge out of the chamber. I still treat it as if it were loaded and ready to fire. I’m superstitious about this! > > I could no more point a gun, even unloaded, at another person than I could fly. Unless, of course, he needed killin’. There are a lot of normal and necessary maintenance processes that couldn’t and shouldn’t be performed on a loaded gun. That’s why the “A gun is always loaded” axiom is overly simplistic. There has to be a way to render a gun zero energy state. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shot-himself-in-the-face-cleaning-his-rifle/715202/46 "2015-03-18T10:57:21Z")
> [@Daylate](#): > > The gun is always loaded, period. If the “gun is always loaded,” then there’s no reason to check the chamber, correct? After all, why should I check the chamber if I already “know” it’s loaded? In other words, the “gun is always loaded” is a dumb rule, IMO. My rules? 1. Always know the condition of the weapon by checking the chamber, safety, bolt, mag, etc. 2. Regardless of its condition (see #1), treat the weapon as if it were loaded. 3. Do not put your finger on the trigger until you’re ready to fire. 4. Do not point the muzzle at anything you’re not willing to destroy. 5. Know your target, and what’s behind it. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shot-himself-in-the-face-cleaning-his-rifle/715202/47 "2015-03-18T12:55:46Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > I hope people realize that using a .22 for this purpose not sufficient for the job (not to encourage thoroughness!) Not _reliably_ sufficient. It can do the job, but only if you aim it just right, otherwise, it’s deformity and too many surgeries. I have an acquaintance whose father successfully killed himself with a rock polishing kit–remember those as a kid? You put a handful of gravel, some polishing material and water into a tube and the tube sits on a few motorized rollers and spins for weeks. Well, the acquaintance’s father opened the tube without letting the water settle and the Coriolis effect and random Brownian motion caused a grain of gravel to shoot out at .9 of lightspeed which not only killed him but ripped a small hole in fabric of space/time through which…_things_…tried to enter our dimension. Probably an outlier, but stuff happens. Also, for the h8ters: Since there’s no way the mods will allow me to post a picture of a space/time rip to the deepest nether-pits of the dungeon dimensions even if I was willing to do that (and I’m not) there’s no way to prove it anyhow. On the other hand, lots of people HAVE had accidents with space/time convergence nexus-point collapses, so I fail to see how the story could strike you as so completely impossible. It did happen, the pebble really did shoot through his head, there really is an interdimensional nexus rip, and your disbelief will not make it less real. This is totes true too. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shot-himself-in-the-face-cleaning-his-rifle/715202/48 "2015-03-18T13:18:28Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > … and the Coriolis effect and random Brownian motion caused a grain of gravel to shoot out … Was that Remmington Brownian? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shot-himself-in-the-face-cleaning-his-rifle/715202/49 "2015-03-18T14:11:58Z")
> [@keturah](#): > > Do you ever get tired of telling tall tales? Your pet points got lost long ago when your exaggerating and outright lying became apparent. Please [see this post and immediately following](http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=161938&start=20) on another message board to see the gentlemen’s post himself. It’s not my tale, it’s his. YOU tell him that he’s lying. I realize there is a cabal of people who have self-appointed to be arbiters of truth and falsehood, but the fact is you’re all amateurs on the level of 9/11 truthers, so convinced of your own argument you refuse to believe anything whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shot-himself-in-the-face-cleaning-his-rifle/715202/50 "2015-03-18T15:26:16Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > In my experience, the phrase is the go-to statement used when people don’t want to admit that it was a suicide attempt. YMMV. Since the OP said anecdotes were welcome, I’ll throw in mine that matches this exactly. Guy I worked with in the service broke up was dumped by his long term girlfriend, fell into a depression, wrote a suicide note, and then “accidentally” shot himself in the face while “cleaning his rifle.” He _lived_; lost an eye and part of his brain, but aside from the physical deformity he’s normal now. Well, a right-wing loon, but normal nonetheless. Anyway, his supervisor and everyone in the chain of command pushed this story that it was an accidental shooting. They buried the suicide note (we all knew about it but I guess it was destroyed at some point). Everyone was instructed that it was an accident, and that’s just the way it was. I was told that they did that in order to keep his benefits, military disability or whatever. I’m not sure if that was actually necessary, but there ya go. An example of a suicide attempt that nobody ever referred to as a suicide attempt in any official capacity. I wonder if the folks in the ER play that same game as well; it’s not like they’re there to pass judgement, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shot-himself-in-the-face-cleaning-his-rifle/715202/51 "2015-03-18T16:11:58Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Please [see this post and immediately following](http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=161938&start=20) on another message board to see the gentlemen’s post himself. It’s not my tale, it’s his. YOU tell him that he’s lying. > > I realize there is a cabal of people who have self-appointed to be arbiters of truth and falsehood, but the fact is you’re all amateurs on the level of 9/11 truthers, so convinced of your own argument you refuse to believe anything whatsoever. It was a little strange! Of course you can die from a .22. It might not be instant, you might have to bleed out, but it’s not like it’s some sort of egregious lie. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shot-himself-in-the-face-cleaning-his-rifle/715202/52 "2015-03-18T18:22:11Z")
Right - shoot yourself directly into an eyeball with almost anything that has sufficient force to puncture the back of the eye socket and the wound can easily be fatal either instantly or in the short term (brain infection). There might well be other methods but that’s the one that first comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shot-himself-in-the-face-cleaning-his-rifle/715202/53 "2015-03-18T19:02:39Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > I know there is a GQ answer to my main question, which is physically how would this happen (assuming the description is valid)? Wouldn’t a rifle be too long to be looking down the barrel and still be able to shoot it? Are we talking somehow dropping the gun and having it shoot you in the face? > > I put it in IMHO since anecdotes are welcome. A family friend shot his finger while cleaning his handgun – that makes sense (other than the not making sure it wasn’t loaded part). Kurt Cobain killed himself with a shotgun, so it’s doable. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shot-himself-in-the-face-cleaning-his-rifle/715202/54 "2015-03-18T19:05:50Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > **Right - shoot yourself directly into an eyeball** with almost anything that has sufficient force to puncture the back of the eye socket and the wound can easily be fatal either instantly or in the short term (brain infection). There might well be other methods but that’s the one that first comes to mind. That explains it. He was taking aim. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shot-himself-in-the-face-cleaning-his-rifle/715202/55 "2015-03-18T19:17:45Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Well that one is really easy. Put the gun in a pocket or waste band without a holster and play quick draw. The trigger gets pulled while the gun is pulled out. Extremely easy to do. No – I’m sure, I just meant no scenario was offered during the show as to who did what. And as far as the .22 I know I heard that right and they showed the X-ray of it — hollow-point, and it had bounced around. He was technically still alive and they were going to keep him that way to try to preserve his organs, but couldn’t do anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shot-himself-in-the-face-cleaning-his-rifle/715202/56 "2015-03-18T20:00:50Z")
According to the [CPSC](http://www.cpsc.gov/PageFiles/122496/5089.pdf%5B/url) (PDF file), BB guns kill about four people per year. So it seems pretty damned rare. The cases I’ve heard of usually involved small children, too. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shot-himself-in-the-face-cleaning-his-rifle/715202/57 "2015-03-18T20:15:18Z")
Dammit, I fucked up the [link](http://www.cpsc.gov/PageFiles/122496/5089.pdf)! ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shot-himself-in-the-face-cleaning-his-rifle/715202/58 "2015-03-18T20:19:29Z")
> [@keturah](#): > > Do you ever get tired of telling tall tales? Your pet points got lost long ago when your exaggerating and outright lying became apparent. The repeated accusation in multiple threads amounts to jerkish behavior and thread derailment. If you want to continue that discussion, please start a Pit thread. Warning issued. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shot-himself-in-the-face-cleaning-his-rifle/715202/59 "2015-03-18T20:25:07Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Dammit, I fucked up the [link](http://www.cpsc.gov/PageFiles/122496/5089.pdf)! No mention of how many eyes were shot out. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shot-himself-in-the-face-cleaning-his-rifle/715202/60 "2015-03-19T07:38:43Z")
Back when I was a squad leader, I was pretty tyrannical about loaded weapon discipline. That’s probably not the best phrase for it, but it’s what I came up with now. The issue was, to make sure a M-16A1 was unloaded, the best way is with no magazine, the bolt back, and the ejection port cover open. The problem was that’s a pretty good way to get dirt and debris in your rifle. So I settled for bolt closed on an empty chamber and loaded magazine in the well. I’d give the command when to lock and load (chamber a round) and when to clear their weapons and woe betide the guy who didn’t clear his weapon (I randomly checked afterwards) because I made certain they understood that this was how my guys volunteered for honey bucket duty. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shot-himself-in-the-face-cleaning-his-rifle/715202.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shot-himself-in-the-face-cleaning-his-rifle/715202.md?page=4)