# Should a kid be allowed counsel when in the Principal's office? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 4, 2015, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-kid-be-allowed-counsel-when-in-the-principals-office/711798 "2015-02-04T12:35:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-kid-be-allowed-counsel-when-in-the-principals-office/711798/61 "2015-02-06T12:24:40Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > My citation isn’t an anecdote, it is a doctoral thesis from 1983. Your position is, “It isn’t like that any more” No, not exactly. My point is that we have no evidence that: 1. Principal composition today is the same as it was three decades ago. 2. Principal composition in all the US is remotely comparable to principal composition in Arkansas. 3. (and this is a new one) Principals with a background in physical education are less competent at their jobs than principals with another background. 4. 40% of principals having a background in Phys Ed means that most people should homeschool. This isn’t the sort of cite that works as a snapshot: “Well, in Arkansas in 1983, a little less than half the principals used to teach PE, so probably that’s true everywhere today.” ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-kid-be-allowed-counsel-when-in-the-principals-office/711798/62 "2015-02-06T18:08:31Z")
All right, sure, things are way different in education now, I’m just a simple man from the fifties who can’t understand your modern world. You’re probably doing homework with space pens or something. It’s a distraction anyway, I was just countering people saying that if the principal wanted to question or discipline the student why would a parent want to interfere with that process, which is the whole point of the OP and I apologize for the digression. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-kid-be-allowed-counsel-when-in-the-principals-office/711798/63 "2015-02-06T19:21:40Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > All right, sure, things are way different in education now, I’m just a simple man from the fifties who can’t understand your modern world. You’re probably doing homework with space pens or something. It’s a distraction anyway, I was just countering people saying that if the principal wanted to question or discipline the student why would a parent want to interfere with that process, which is the whole point of the OP and I apologize for the digression. Snarkiness is lovely, self-pity is highly persuasive, but setting aside the petulant snarkiness, it sounds like you really do have nothing to back up anything about your assertion at all, so we’re in agreement. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@Rich\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_1)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2015, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-kid-be-allowed-counsel-when-in-the-principals-office/711798/64 "2015-02-09T00:15:35Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Let’s say your kid gets summoned to the principals office and while they are there, are accused of some crime (ex. stealing, making threats, drugs). The principal or others start asking questions. > > Is that kid required to say anything? Do they have the right to request a parents involvement? > > What I’ve heard is too many times kids have been accused of something and say the wrong thing or do something stupid and get into worse trouble. Teenagers do that. I’ve told my son to 1. stay out of trouble and 2. if he is called to the office and they start asking questions he is to refuse to answer anything but to call me, his mother, or his grandpa (an attorney). and 3. if he didnt follow rule #1 he is in even worse trouble. Anytime a child is accused of something the parents should be immediately involved and the accusations should be discussed with the parent, not the child directly from another adult. A parent should have a right at all times to protect their child. That is a fundamental responsibility and right of a parent to be able to protect their child. Doesn’t matter if they’re in school, the parent should have a right to be involved and in fact be the one doing the communicating with the child. Whether or not they do have this right in U.S. laws is something I do not know - but I believe they should have this right. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-kid-be-allowed-counsel-when-in-the-principals-office/711798/65 "2015-02-09T00:25:44Z")
> [@Rich\_1](#): > > Anytime a child is accused of something the parents should be immediately involved and the accusations should be discussed with the parent, not the child directly from another adult. So, let me get this straight. Anytime? As in, I’m on the playground with my students, and Jill comes up to me to tell me that Andy called her mom stupid, and instead of calling Andy over to get him and Jill to work it out, I should be on the phone with parents? Perhaps you meant to say any time a child is accused of something by the police–is that what you meant? Or are you really suggesting that we hire sufficient additional school personnel to handle the involvement of parents with every one of the tiny disciplinary issues we deal with every day? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-kid-be-allowed-counsel-when-in-the-principals-office/711798.md?page=3)