# Should a Large General U.S. University Offer Study in Foreign Languages, Linguistics? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 15, 2023, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-large-general-u-s-university-offer-study-in-foreign-languages-linguistics/988582 "2023-08-15T00:50:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-large-general-u-s-university-offer-study-in-foreign-languages-linguistics/988582/21 "2023-08-15T10:58:03Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Have there been any US Presidents who can speak anything other than English Dubya was pretty comfortable in Spanish, at a frequent-tourist kind of level. Delivered some campaign speeches in the language, as I recall. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-large-general-u-s-university-offer-study-in-foreign-languages-linguistics/988582/22 "2023-08-15T11:02:33Z")
Too late to edit … How many Americans could answer this question: “Как вас зовут?” without needing an interpreter/translator? It is a simple question and just asks “What is your name?” An American who learned Russian at university would know this, no problem. Take away the Russian language option, and they’d be stuck. Seems to me that international relations, where this kind of thing can come in handy, is a lot more better than solving x=2 in some math class. STEM has its place. But I’d suggest that its place is no more important than anything else. Learning a foreign language is only ever a good thing. Let those who are good at it shine. Taking away a chance for them to do so, is doing America a disservice. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-large-general-u-s-university-offer-study-in-foreign-languages-linguistics/988582/23 "2023-08-15T11:11:06Z")
Verifying my Dubya note above, I find this: > **[List of multilingual presidents of the United States](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multilingual_presidents_of_the_United_States)** > > Of the 45\[a\] persons who have served as presidents of the United States, at least half have displayed proficiency in speaking or writing a language other than English. Of these, only one, Martin Van Buren, learned English as his second language; his first language was Dutch. Four of the earliest presidents were multilingual, with John Quincy Adams and Thomas Jefferson demonstrating proficiency in a number of foreign languages. > James A. Garfield and his successor Chester A. Arthur knew Ancient ... Definitely some interesting trivia in there. (“Which president learned English as a second language?”) ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-large-general-u-s-university-offer-study-in-foreign-languages-linguistics/988582/24 "2023-08-15T13:03:29Z")
> [@Die\_Capacitrix](#): > > I chose my university for my STEM degree based on the fact that it also emphasized non-STEM requirements for the STEM students and vice versa. As did I, but not because reading foreign language journals was important for performing research. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-large-general-u-s-university-offer-study-in-foreign-languages-linguistics/988582/25 "2023-08-15T13:58:47Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Have there been any US Presidents who can speak anything other than English; and more importantly, used it in talks with other world leaders? Van Buren’s first language was Dutch. Hoover spoke Chinese (which he used to speak secretly with his wife, who spoke something like five languages). FDR spoke German and French. So did Teddy Roosevelt. Woodrow Wilson could read and write German. Carter gave speeches in Spanish (that were better received than Bush, who tried the same). Earlier, Adams (the First one), Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Adams (the Second one) were all broadly learned in various languages, including French (which they used in diplomatic capacities). Many of the others were proficient in Latin and Greek, as part of a classical education (which, I suppose, goes more directly to the point of the thread). Clinton and Obama claimed limited proficiency in German and Indonesian, respectively. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-large-general-u-s-university-offer-study-in-foreign-languages-linguistics/988582/26 "2023-08-15T14:27:02Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > There may be plenty of other reasons to have these programs, but the notion that American STEM students need it isn’t going to be high on that list. Are you implying that a STEM students only need something related to STEM and that any other subject is not relevant? > [@Ruken](#): > > As did I, but not because reading foreign language journals was important for performing research. Or that anything that is not directly related to STEM research is trivial or irrelevant? Good to be used as a hobby horse, but not for serious matters in real life? If so I want to state that I completely disagree with your opinion. You are missing so much that the objective STEM knowledge you believe you have is warped, clouded and distorted beyond being useful. But perhaps I am misunderstanding your position and we are both expressing our respective POVs too strongly. Anyway: Closing a language department is shortsighted and dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-large-general-u-s-university-offer-study-in-foreign-languages-linguistics/988582/27 "2023-08-15T14:32:25Z")
I went to Italy last year. I didn’t need any Italian to get by. Speaking it enriched my experience immeasurably, but in ways that would be hard to convey to a monolingual, who may have had a great time on a similar trip. Education as a whole is like that: it’s very difficult to convey the ways in which a STEM or humanities education improves your life experience, but it does. When those things don’t directly lead to dollars, the ill-educated often can’t be bothered to see the point. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-large-general-u-s-university-offer-study-in-foreign-languages-linguistics/988582/28 "2023-08-15T14:48:24Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > How do Americans who only speak English get by in the rest of the world? In English-speaking countries, just fine, I guess; but what about elsewhere? Do American diplomats in, say Russia or Senegal, speak Russian or French, respectively? Yes, American diplomats will be trained in the languages of the countries they are serving in at the level of “general professional proficieny” in both speaking and reading. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-large-general-u-s-university-offer-study-in-foreign-languages-linguistics/988582/29 "2023-08-15T15:02:49Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > There seem to be a lot of factors, and it’s not easy to get information on some of them. I should stop my hijack here, and maybe open a thread on your question. There was actually a thread started up recently on that subject: > [@Big Money and US College Football](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-money-and-us-college-football/988149): > > Of course this has been talked about, with teams wanting to join more lucrative conferences with bigger TV deals. I’m not a huge college football fan, just enjoying occasional casual games, so would appreciate your opinion on a few questions. Is it true that the experience of watching college football on TV has become unpleasant? If so, why is this? (I have heard the term “unwatchable” used…) I understand some conferences have signed big long-term deals that guarantee it’s team a share … As you surmised, there’s no clear answer. My initial thought is “if portions of the athletic department weren’t serving as a net gain to the university, they’d be cut in this sort of circumstance”. But these answers are never easy, or black and white. There are short- and long-term ramifications for all of these decisions, and I’ve never served in a university’s financial department. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-large-general-u-s-university-offer-study-in-foreign-languages-linguistics/988582/30 "2023-08-15T15:27:40Z")
The vast majority of research in STEM fields (and much of the research in non-STEM fields) these days is published in English. Obviously you’re better off knowing German and French and Russian so you can cover all the bases, but a scientific researcher with a knowledge of nothing but English is really not held back by an unfamiliarity with other languages. Which is not to say that there are no benefits to learning languages; I think there are many, most of them detailed in the thread already so I won’t belabor the point. I think it’s a sad day when language classes are cut. It’s just that access to STEM articles in other languages isn’t an especially important reason for it being a sad day. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-large-general-u-s-university-offer-study-in-foreign-languages-linguistics/988582/31 "2023-08-15T15:39:44Z")
> [@zimaane](#): > > Yes, American diplomats will be trained in the languages of the countries they are serving in at the level of “general professional proficieny” in both speaking and reading. This was half the reason I never followed a foreign service path since I am crap with any languages. Ah well. I say cut 'em all! But seriously, I have to think there are better targets for trimming than languages. Call in an outside consultant at least to give an appearance of impartiality. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-large-general-u-s-university-offer-study-in-foreign-languages-linguistics/988582/32 "2023-08-15T15:45:31Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > I have to think there are better targets for trimming than languages Why would _any_ courses need to be trimmed? The only reasons I can think of are: 1. Enrollment has dropped to the point that they can’t fill classes (this seems rare) 2. Administrative bloat means it’s hard to pay for instructors without raising tuition again 3. Nobody ever enrolls in these classes (lack of student interest) It seems a common mindset to presume that people are incompentent slackers and constantly work to ferret out and get rid of the worst. But what if we just presume that everybody is a competent professional doing their job, and let them get on with it? We would save a lot of money if we just stopped tracking everything so damn hard. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-large-general-u-s-university-offer-study-in-foreign-languages-linguistics/988582/33 "2023-08-15T15:56:57Z")
I wouldn’t think that WVU is a school known for its language program or that students seek out that school for a language-based degree. My guess it that students take these classes more as filler, to meet general studies requirements, or because they find them interesting. If the language classes aren’t available, then students will take classes in other programs and it will essentially be the same to them. Certainly a language class is different than a literature class, but to the students at WVU, it might not really make a difference. Students who are really interested in a language-based degree will likely be at a school which is more focused on that area of study rather than at WVU. An opposite example might be a liberal arts school cutting their electronics engineering department. It doesn’t mean that EE is not valuable or useful to liberal arts students, but rather that the students at that school aren’t interested enough in EE for it to be economically viable to offer courses in it. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-large-general-u-s-university-offer-study-in-foreign-languages-linguistics/988582/34 "2023-08-15T16:14:17Z")
The WVU College of Arts and Sciences (which includes majors like math, physics, chemistry, biology, history, English, political science, and psychology) requires students in these majors to complete four semesters of a foreign language. It’s not clear to me whether WVU’s plans will ‘merely’ result in students’ no longer being able to major in foreign languages, or eliminate all foreign language instruction at WVU. If it’s the latter, it will have a huge impact on the school’s academic reputation. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-large-general-u-s-university-offer-study-in-foreign-languages-linguistics/988582/35 "2023-08-15T17:02:31Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > It’s not clear to me whether WVU’s plans will ‘merely’ result in students’ no longer being able to major in foreign languages, or eliminate all foreign language instruction at WVU. The bit quoted in the OP (“All of the foreign language and literature programs at the university are to be discontinued; the president of the university publicly stated that foreign-language classes will be replaced with online apps or remote classes at other universities”) makes me think it’s the latter, but I don’t know for sure. Here’s the letter detailing the proposed eliminations: > **[preliminary-recommendation-world-languages-literatures-and-linguistics.pdf](https://provost.wvu.edu/files/d/5f12601b-6686-4aa6-b2c5-8ffbd32224ef/preliminary-recommendation-world-languages-literatures-and-linguistics.pdf)** ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-large-general-u-s-university-offer-study-in-foreign-languages-linguistics/988582/36 "2023-08-15T20:50:59Z")
Right, I forgot that i also had to take the equivalent of 4 classes in a foreign language (5 if you chose Chinese or Japanese) that was offered by the school, or otherwise demonstrate proficiency in a foreign language at the same level. So I would assume that something similar is the case for other schools, and closing the entire foreign language department would mean that students would have to somehow take classes elsewhere. I guess then I should rethink my initial response - especially in light of the fact that apparently some of the programs weren’t losing money. It really sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-large-general-u-s-university-offer-study-in-foreign-languages-linguistics/988582/37 "2023-08-15T22:05:28Z")
I expect you’re probably right that these are not incredibly popular majors, and that students who are truly interested in studying a language are perhaps likely to go to a school other than WVU. But it gets a little tricky when we’re talking about in-state students. For a kid growing up in West Virginia, the lower cost & greater convenience of attending THE public university in their state may be compelling. They might in some ways be better off at a different institution if they’re really interested in language study, but going elsewhere might not be feasible. So while I agree with you in general, I wonder about West Virginia kids with limited resources who really want to learn Spanish, or Russian, or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-large-general-u-s-university-offer-study-in-foreign-languages-linguistics/988582/38 "2023-08-15T22:06:14Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > Are you implying No. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-large-general-u-s-university-offer-study-in-foreign-languages-linguistics/988582/39 "2023-08-15T22:15:31Z")
Ah, OK, got carried away. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-large-general-u-s-university-offer-study-in-foreign-languages-linguistics/988582/40 "2023-08-15T22:22:09Z")
> [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](#): > > But it gets a little tricky when we’re talking about in-state students. For a kid growing up in West Virginia, the lower cost & greater convenience of attending THE public university in their state may be compelling. They might in some ways be better off at a different institution if they’re really interested in language study, but going elsewhere might not be feasible. So while I agree with you in general, I wonder about West Virginia kids with limited resources who really want to learn Spanish, or Russian, or whatever. I could not have named any other public schools but here’s the sortable list in Wikipedia. I can’t tell you that it covers all the bases though without digging at each school: > **[List of colleges and universities in West Virginia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_and_universities_in_West_Virginia)** > > There are forty-four colleges and universities in the U.S. state of West Virginia that are listed under the Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education. These institutions include two research universities, five master's universities, and fourteen baccalaureate colleges, as well as twenty-one associate's colleges. In addition, there are three institutions classified as special-focus institutions. > West Virginia's oldest surviving post-secondary institution is Bethany College, f... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-large-general-u-s-university-offer-study-in-foreign-languages-linguistics/988582.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-large-general-u-s-university-offer-study-in-foreign-languages-linguistics/988582.md?page=3)