# Should a pregnant woman be given a seat on a crowded train? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 9, 2006, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-pregnant-woman-be-given-a-seat-on-a-crowded-train/367936 "2006-08-09T00:18:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![miamouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ad7895/32.png) [@miamouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miamouse)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-pregnant-woman-be-given-a-seat-on-a-crowded-train/367936/181 "2006-08-10T20:33:56Z")
[QUOTE=XJETGIRLX] But a pregnant woman isn’t some delicate fragile glass sculpture. If a simple busride is so treacherous than perhaps the onus is on her to plan her transportation to accommodate her situation. [/QUOTE] Have you ever been pregnant? I had perfectly normal pregnancies. I was told not to sweep, or lift anything heavy. It’s been a while, maybe a doctor would be able to come a long and elaborate for us, but I believe it put stress on the abdominal muscles, which aren’t where they normally are to begin with. What affect would the jerking around of a woman’s body have? [link](http://health.discovery.com/centers/pregnancy/backpain.html) > [@](#): > > Because the abdominal muscles are stretched far beyond their normal state during pregnancy, they lose their ability to perform their normal role in maintaining body posture and as a result, the lower back takes on an abnormal amount of weight from the torso. > > Reduce your physical activities. If possible, minimize certain activities that maximally stress the lower back and pelvis. These activities include standing on one leg, climbing stairs, walking long distances and standing for long periods of time. I did BTW end up taking the express bus everyday towards the end of my pregnancies, because I was tired of dealing with the asses on the train, including the woman who took up two seats, with her normal sized ass, and called me fat 8 months along and only weighing 160 lbs. I decided it wasn’t worth the aggravation I was putting myself through. The express bus was expensive, and took much longer, and I saw the rest of my family for less of the day because of it. But, I’m glad, because you know, someone else got to sit down. :rolleyes: I hope they and people who feel like them never need common courtesy. ---
**Author:** ![XJETGIRLX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9fc29f/32.png) [@XJETGIRLX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XJETGIRLX)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-pregnant-woman-be-given-a-seat-on-a-crowded-train/367936/182 "2006-08-10T20:46:13Z")
[QUOTE=miamouse] [link](http://health.discovery.com/centers/pregnancy/backpain.html) [/QUOTE] I’ve never been pregnant but I do have constant, chronic back and shoulder pain that makes standing unpleasant for me too, but I don’t expect anyone to treat me any differently. Because you have a temporary situation where you’re exposed to lower back pain, you think you’re owed accommodation by everyone around you? If you’re having that much trouble standing for the 10-20 minutes (or however long) it takes to ride the bus, then I would say it’s probably in your best interest to make other arrangements where you will be guaranteed a chance to sit down. It’s not society’s responsibility to make sure you’re comfortable all the time, every day, just because you’re pregnant. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-pregnant-woman-be-given-a-seat-on-a-crowded-train/367936/183 "2006-08-10T20:58:07Z")
That’s such a bullshit argument. Just because you’re too fucking lazy to give your seat up for a pregnant woman, do you think that society owes you special accomodation? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-pregnant-woman-be-given-a-seat-on-a-crowded-train/367936/184 "2006-08-10T21:00:16Z")
To clarify: That’s a general “you”, not directed at XJETGIRLX. And to rephrase: Just because you’re too fucking lazy and selfish to give up your seat to a pregnant woman, you think that you should be exempt from decent civilized behavior? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-pregnant-woman-be-given-a-seat-on-a-crowded-train/367936/185 "2006-08-10T21:10:45Z")
[QUOTE=XJETGIRLX] I’ve never been pregnant but I do have constant, chronic back and shoulder pain that makes standing unpleasant for me too, but I don’t expect anyone to treat me any differently. Because you have a temporary situation where you’re exposed to lower back pain, you think you’re owed accommodation by everyone around you? If you’re having that much trouble standing for the 10-20 minutes (or however long) it takes to ride the bus, then I would say it’s probably in your best interest to make other arrangements where you will be guaranteed a chance to sit down. It’s not society’s responsibility to make sure you’re comfortable all the time, every day, just because you’re pregnant. [/QUOTE] Who said anyone thinks it should be society’s responsibility? We’re talking about the ability to empathize with someone who you think might benefit more than you by taking a load off. Society doesn’t owe anyone anything. It’s a cold hard world and it’s every man for himself. You either choose to give your fellow man/woman a break or you don’t. I choose to make someone’s life a little better if I can. There’s no secret agenda. I have no intention of furthering unequal treatment for women. It is what it is. ---
**Author:** ![miamouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ad7895/32.png) [@miamouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miamouse)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-pregnant-woman-be-given-a-seat-on-a-crowded-train/367936/186 "2006-08-10T21:13:42Z")
[QUOTE=XJETGIRLX] Because you have a temporary situation where you’re exposed to lower back pain, you think you’re owed accommodation by everyone around you? If you’re having that much trouble standing for the 10-20 minutes (or however long) it takes to ride the bus, then I would say it’s probably in your best interest to make other arrangements where you will be guaranteed a chance to sit down. It’s not society’s responsibility to make sure you’re comfortable all the time, every day, just because you’re pregnant. [/QUOTE] The bus ride is 30 minutes the train ride is 60 minutes (on a good day) at the time it was a combined 90 minutes. Read my previous post, I did make other arrangements, and it took even longer. Again, people shouldn’t give up the seat JUST because the lady is pregnant, they should give up the seat because it’s safer for the baby she’s carrying. Unless they’re mad about that too, but there aren’t enough rolleyes in the world for that. And I’m sorry you have back problems, but that’s exactly why people won’t ask for a seat when they need one. You don’t know who’s hurting. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-pregnant-woman-be-given-a-seat-on-a-crowded-train/367936/187 "2006-08-10T21:38:55Z")
[QUOTE=Eric Cartman’s Ghost] Because it’s _polite_ for a gentleman to give up his seat for a lady. Isn’t that easy? Of course, if your next comment is “But _why_ is it polite?”, I’ll give you the same answer I give kids “Because it is.” It’s not polite to eat spagehetti with your fingers, even though they’re clearly the most efficient tool to eat spaghetti with, _because that’s what’s polite_. [/QUOTE] Exactly. It’s just one of those old customs that have become so ingrained in us, we take it for granted. Now, it may be silly and old-fashioned, but hey, a lot of people were raised that way, and it’s something you can’t really get away from. **Sampiro** , for example, was raised in the Deep South, where that kind of thing is pretty much a cardinal rule of society. It’s not something worth getting all upset about, in the grand scheme of things. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-pregnant-woman-be-given-a-seat-on-a-crowded-train/367936/188 "2006-08-10T21:46:55Z")
[QUOTE=yingtongtiddleipo] Well - he carried on reading his paper until I threw up on him. [/QUOTE] I love this story even though I was able to anticipate the ending. I only wish the man in question would come and post in this thread and tell us how he feels about the incident. ---
**Author:** ![XJETGIRLX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9fc29f/32.png) [@XJETGIRLX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XJETGIRLX)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-pregnant-woman-be-given-a-seat-on-a-crowded-train/367936/189 "2006-08-10T22:04:10Z")
[QUOTE=miamouse] they should give up the seat because it’s safer for the baby she’s carrying. [/QUOTE] With all due respect, I think you would be ill served to entrust the safety of yourself or your child in the hands of strangers. If it’s that much of a concern for you, then you really should be making alternate arrangements. There is not some inviolate or sacrosanct status conferred upon those who are pregnant. You’re a person who happens to be pregnant. If someone offers you a seat, good on them! But I don’t think someone’s an ass if they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![yingtongtiddleipo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/f6c823/32.png) [@yingtongtiddleipo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yingtongtiddleipo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-pregnant-woman-be-given-a-seat-on-a-crowded-train/367936/190 "2006-08-11T09:24:34Z")
[QUOTE=bluethree] I love this story even though I was able to anticipate the ending. I only wish the man in question would come and post in this thread and tell us how he feels about the incident. [/QUOTE] Yes - I’d like that too! ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-pregnant-woman-be-given-a-seat-on-a-crowded-train/367936/191 "2006-08-11T09:49:30Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] No direct insults in IMHO. You know where the Pit is. [/QUOTE] Frank, I think we need some guidelines on how to make an indirect insult. Can you do that in your spare time? (Hey, just trying to take some heat out of a basic conversation 😃 ) ---
**Author:** ![Auntbeast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Auntbeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Auntbeast)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-pregnant-woman-be-given-a-seat-on-a-crowded-train/367936/192 "2006-08-11T13:24:00Z")
[QUOTE=Anaamika] You know what, never mind. If anyone has an urge to discover what Southern Hospitality means to me they can start a new thread and I will be glad to answer. Oakminister’s comment is such an insult…didn’t listen to any of the reasons why it’s different in the North, why we do things differently. Just assumed. But I won’t hijack this thread anymore then it’s already been. I’ve already answered the OP, so sorry. [/QUOTE] \You must be from New York!\ It isn’t a matter of a pregnant woman being irresponsible with her birth control, inconsiderately leaving her home (BTW, she’s probably got at least a Dr.‘s appointment a week). It is about showing respect. It isn’t a slight if someone offers you their seat, they are being polite. To me, it is no different than offering a seat to someone on crutches. Contrary to evidence supplied by my boss (How does anyone even know you have a baby?) pregant women are pretty easy to spot. She may not want your seat, or need your seat, but she just might feel a tad bit better knowing that someone else on the FREAKIN’ planet looked outside their own petri dish and noticed that someone else might need a kindness. And for the record, the south, especially Florida, is rampantly overrun with yankees. And, while I don’t know how you do it up north, nor do I care, I am pretty damned certain that my parents/grandparents would whip my ass if they felt for a second that they didn’t raise me better than that. I am pretty sure that exists in every culture. Politeness, Respect, Thoughtfulness, it is not the purveyance of any particular region. However, pregnacy exists everywhere, and unless you have ever been very pregnant, you really don’t know how uncomfortable it can be. It was nice, during my pregnancy when folks were deferential to my “situation.” It made it more pleasant. Politeness and respect is the oil in the wheel of civilization. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-pregnant-woman-be-given-a-seat-on-a-crowded-train/367936/193 "2006-08-11T13:27:16Z")
[QUOTE=DianaG] To clarify: That’s a general “you”, not directed at XJETGIRLX. And to rephrase: Just because you’re too fucking lazy and selfish to give up your seat to a pregnant woman, you think that you should be exempt from decent civilized behavior? [/QUOTE] [Official Moderator Warning]This is the _last_ warning anyone will get about keeping it civil in IMHO. And this is a general “warning”, not directed just at **DianaG** [/Official Moderator Warning] ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-pregnant-woman-be-given-a-seat-on-a-crowded-train/367936/194 "2006-08-11T13:49:54Z")
[QUOTE=XJETGIRLX] With all due respect, I think you would be ill served to entrust the safety of yourself or your child in the hands of strangers. If it’s that much of a concern for you, then you really should be making alternate arrangements. There is not some inviolate or sacrosanct status conferred upon those who are pregnant. You’re a person who happens to be pregnant. If someone offers you a seat, good on them! But I don’t think someone’s an ass if they don’t. [/QUOTE] “Bless your heart” caused trouble because some of us know what it means in the South. In the same vein, quite a few of us know that “with all due respect” means–“you are due NO respect.” “Making alternate arrangements” is not always easy. Perhaps the lady needs to work up to the last minute. Taking cabs is quite expensive–especially for a daily commute. Apparently you have health problems that cause you discomfort while commuting. Perhaps you should make alternate arrangements. Pain can color your perception of the world. And bottling up your anger by refusing to ask for a seat will just make you more bitter. ---
**Author:** ![XJETGIRLX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9fc29f/32.png) [@XJETGIRLX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XJETGIRLX)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-pregnant-woman-be-given-a-seat-on-a-crowded-train/367936/195 "2006-08-11T14:10:39Z")
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke] In the same vein, quite a few of us know that “with all due respect” means–“you are due NO respect.” [/QUOTE] With all due respect, I mean precisely what I say. That’s a difficult concept for some, I realize. [QUOTE=Bridget Burke] Apparently you have health problems that cause you discomfort while commuting. Perhaps you should make alternate arrangements. [/QUOTE] I have my own car, provide my own ergonomic support at the workplace or anywhere else I need it, and don’t ask for special treatment nor feel entitled to it. It’s nice when offered, but it’s not expected. Not asking for the world to bend to my needs is not bottling things up. It’s taking responsibility for my own well-being. I think the world would be a much better place if we all took on that responsibility instead of expecting things to be handed to us and forcing a guilt trip on those we feel are responsible when they are not. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-pregnant-woman-be-given-a-seat-on-a-crowded-train/367936/196 "2006-08-11T14:17:22Z")
[QUOTE=XJETGIRLX] With all due respect, I mean precisely what I say. That’s a difficult concept for some, I realize. I have my own car, provide my own ergonomic support at the workplace or anywhere else I need it, and don’t ask for special treatment nor feel entitled to it. It’s nice when offered, but it’s not expected. Not asking for the world to bend to my needs is not bottling things up. It’s taking responsibility for my own well-being. I think the world would be a much better place if we all took on that responsibility instead of expecting things to be handed to us and forcing a guilt trip on those we feel are responsible when they are not. [/QUOTE] Don’t be silly. Not everyone can afford their own car, ergonomic furniture or the like. Disabled people can and DO get preferential treatment all the time because society values all it’s members…even those that are less than perfect. The ol’ _“tough shit…pull yourself up by your broken bootstraps”_ approach is antisocial. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-pregnant-woman-be-given-a-seat-on-a-crowded-train/367936/197 "2006-08-11T16:06:30Z")
Actually, it occurred to me that there is one set of circumstances under which I’d offer my seat to an otherwise healthy woman which would be highly unlikely to apply to a man. If a woman were in high heels and having trouble keeping her balance, I’d offer her my seat, especially if I were afraid that, if I didn’t, she’d fall into my lap! I don’t commute in shoes I can’t walk in, myself, these days, but I do remember an employer whose dress code for female employees (not male) specified that we had to wear shoes with heels which were at least 2 inches high when wearing our uniforms, along with flowers in our hair, preferably fresh. We even had a manager who tried to enforce those rules for a few months. It’s not equitable, but it is true that women are encouraged and, to some degree expected to wear shoes that aren’t entirely comfortable or practical, especially for standing on long bus or train rides. I may think women are foolish for wearing the silly things, but I also know that in some circles heels are still seen as more professional than my nice, comfortable, sensible flats. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-pregnant-woman-be-given-a-seat-on-a-crowded-train/367936/198 "2006-08-11T16:33:21Z")
[QUOTE=Siege] If a woman were in high heels and having trouble keeping her balance, I’d offer her my seat, especially if I were afraid that, if I didn’t, she’d fall into my lap! [/QUOTE] I’d be inclined to position myself so that she did fall in my lap, but I’m a dirty old man. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-pregnant-woman-be-given-a-seat-on-a-crowded-train/367936/199 "2006-08-11T16:41:27Z")
[QUOTE=Siege] Actually, it occurred to me that there is one set of circumstances under which I’d offer my seat to an otherwise healthy woman which would be highly unlikely to apply to a man. If a woman were in high heels and having trouble keeping her balance, I’d offer her my seat, especially if I were afraid that, if I didn’t, she’d fall into my lap! I don’t commute in shoes I can’t walk in, myself, these days, but I do remember an employer whose dress code for female employees (not male) specified that we had to wear shoes with heels which were at least 2 inches high when wearing our uniforms, along with flowers in our hair, preferably fresh. We even had a manager who tried to enforce those rules for a few months. It’s not equitable, but it is true that women are encouraged and, to some degree expected to wear shoes that aren’t entirely comfortable or practical, especially for standing on long bus or train rides. I may think women are foolish for wearing the silly things, but I also know that in some circles heels are still seen as more professional than my nice, comfortable, sensible flats. [/QUOTE] I’m almost afraid to ask what you did for a living, but curiosity is getting the better of me. What…aside from a hula dancing banker…would require a person to wear both heels \*and \* flowers in her hair? As for the “heels on the train” thing, that’s why most women carry a second gigantic purse. It holds shoes, books, shopping, lunch, the little purse, baby stuff, etc. I wear 3.5" heels when I’m at work, but if you have to commute, it’s good to have sensible shoes, too. (pictures self sliding across a bridge in Chicago on an icy, windy day) ---
**Author:** ![Missy2U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@Missy2U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Missy2U)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-pregnant-woman-be-given-a-seat-on-a-crowded-train/367936/200 "2006-08-11T16:43:34Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] I’m almost afraid to ask what you did for a living, but curiosity is getting the better of me. What…aside from a hula dancing banker…would require a person to wear both heels \*and \* flowers in her hair? [/QUOTE] I’m betting it involved working at a resort or a restaurant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-pregnant-woman-be-given-a-seat-on-a-crowded-train/367936.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-pregnant-woman-be-given-a-seat-on-a-crowded-train/367936.md?page=11)