# Should a sex change for an ex-wife end ex-husband's alimony payments? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 28, 2007, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-sex-change-for-an-ex-wife-end-ex-husbands-alimony-payments/397878 "2007-03-28T18:56:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-sex-change-for-an-ex-wife-end-ex-husbands-alimony-payments/397878/21 "2007-03-29T12:57:33Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Why use ‘gift’ as a verb when ‘give’ conveys the exact same meaning? Why use ‘gift’ as a verb at all, for that matter? [/QUOTE] It’s an unconventional usage, but it’s correct according to [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com): > [@](#): > > gift (gĭft) Pronunciation Key > n. > Something that is bestowed voluntarily and without compensation. > The act, right, or power of giving. > A talent, endowment, aptitude, or inclination. > > tr.v. gift·ed, gift·ing, gifts > > To present something as a gift to. > To endow with. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-sex-change-for-an-ex-wife-end-ex-husbands-alimony-payments/397878/22 "2007-03-29T13:20:15Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] I have to ask, out of sheer morbid curiosity: if the ex-wife had remained female, but come out as a lesbian, do you think that likewise would void the alimony agreement? [/QUOTE] Knowing of such a case, and how hard she worked at her marriage, I’d say no. She certainly was unaware of her orientation until several years after the breakup. You made your point and thus I withdraw my earlier post. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-sex-change-for-an-ex-wife-end-ex-husbands-alimony-payments/397878/23 "2007-03-29T13:49:54Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] It’s an unconventional usage, but it’s correct according to [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com): [/QUOTE] Doesn’t really answer the question. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-sex-change-for-an-ex-wife-end-ex-husbands-alimony-payments/397878/24 "2007-03-29T13:56:38Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Doesn’t really answer the question. [/QUOTE] Well, not being her, I can only guess that she chose a word that expresses that her actions were more than run-of-the-mill niceities for her ex. For instance, my husband stops at McDonald’s on his way home. He picks up two hamburgers and “gives” me one of them. If he referred to it as a “gift”, it implies (to me, anyway) that this isn’t something that is expected of a marriage partner; that it is a special act. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-sex-change-for-an-ex-wife-end-ex-husbands-alimony-payments/397878/25 "2007-03-29T14:24:52Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] Well, not being her, I can only guess that she chose a word that expresses that her actions were more than run-of-the-mill niceities for her ex. For instance, my husband stops at McDonald’s on his way home. He picks up two hamburgers and “gives” me one of them. If he referred to it as a “gift”, it implies (to me, anyway) that this isn’t something that is expected of a marriage partner; that it is a special act. [/QUOTE] A lifestyle is not a hamburger. If he stopped on the way home, bought a diamond necklace, and gave it to you, would you consider it a gift? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-sex-change-for-an-ex-wife-end-ex-husbands-alimony-payments/397878/26 "2007-03-29T14:56:29Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] Right. The ex-wife didn’t suddenly gain years of job experience and training by becoming male. I doubt he’s making more money than before just by virtue of having SRS. [/QUOTE] In fact, SRS can do real harm to your career: [http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/24/sexchange.firing.ap/index.html?eref=rss\_us](http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/24/sexchange.firing.ap/index.html?eref=rss_us) ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-sex-change-for-an-ex-wife-end-ex-husbands-alimony-payments/397878/27 "2007-03-29T15:14:21Z")
My understanding is that alimony is justified as a dividend from the time when the one-income family was the norm, and meant to be a way to offer some recognition of the partnership effects of the marriage even upon the one person’s career, or home life. Given that background thinking, and that the ex-wife did effectively work in the home for 18 years in a single-income household, I don’t think it’s proper to consider chopping off the alimony payment simply because of SRS. I’ll admit that it seems odd to be talking about sending alimony payments to “this guy who used to be my wife.” ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-sex-change-for-an-ex-wife-end-ex-husbands-alimony-payments/397878/28 "2007-03-29T15:15:59Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] A lifestyle is not a hamburger. If he stopped on the way home, bought a diamond necklace, and gave it to you, would you consider it a gift? [/QUOTE] Yes, it would definitely be considered a gift by me. As I said, it appears to me that she feels that the lifestyle she afforded him is over and above the standard giving that is done in a marriage. The use of the word “gifting” implies a “kept man” scenario, to me (sort of like Sharon Stone’s role in Casino). If I recall from her alimony thread, he didn’t do much in the way of work or home duties. He just hung around and lived the life. That may be why she chose the word “gift” as opposed to “give”. Sounded to me like there was more take and less give on his side. Again, just speculatin’ here. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-sex-change-for-an-ex-wife-end-ex-husbands-alimony-payments/397878/29 "2007-03-29T17:31:19Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Why use ‘gift’ as a verb when ‘give’ conveys the exact same meaning? Why use ‘gift’ as a verb at all, for that matter? [/QUOTE] I don’t think they convey exactly the same meaning. “Gift,” as a verb, implies giving something freely as an act of kindness, expecting no reward. “Give” doesn’t carry any motivational connotations, and can be done conditionally, grudgingly, or under duress. I _gift_ things to my family because I love them. I _give_ money to the IRS because they’ll arrest me if I don’t. That’s just in the abstract, though. I don’t have an opinion on why **Foxy40** used the term in that context. ---
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-sex-change-for-an-ex-wife-end-ex-husbands-alimony-payments/397878/30 "2007-03-29T17:35:10Z")
Hell no the ex-hubby shouldnt have to pay. Unless sex change surgery is now covered by insurance (and It may, but not all, and I doubt any actually) this ex-wife had enough money for the surgery, she/he shouldn’t need alimony payments. The gender of it shouldn’t even matter. i wouldn’t want to keep paying alimony to someone who needs my money and yet drives a porsche while im driving a freakin honda! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-sex-change-for-an-ex-wife-end-ex-husbands-alimony-payments/397878/31 "2007-03-29T17:36:41Z")
Waitaminnit – since when is female-to-male gender-reassignment surgery possible?! ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-sex-change-for-an-ex-wife-end-ex-husbands-alimony-payments/397878/32 "2007-03-29T17:51:37Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Waitaminnit – since when is female-to-male gender-reassignment surgery possible?! [/QUOTE] It’s been around for a long time and is often undetectable from a person born into a male body. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-sex-change-for-an-ex-wife-end-ex-husbands-alimony-payments/397878/33 "2007-03-29T18:00:12Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] It’s been around for a long time and is often undetectable from a person born into a male body. [/QUOTE] How does it work? What do they use to make the penis and testicles? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-sex-change-for-an-ex-wife-end-ex-husbands-alimony-payments/397878/34 "2007-03-29T18:10:54Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] How does it work? What do they use to make the penis and testicles? [/QUOTE] [http://www.lgbthealthchannel.com/transgender/surgery.shtml](http://www.lgbthealthchannel.com/transgender/surgery.shtml) has quite a bit of detail. ---
**Author:** ![Geek\_Mecha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecae2f/32.png) [@Geek\_Mecha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geek_Mecha)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-sex-change-for-an-ex-wife-end-ex-husbands-alimony-payments/397878/35 "2007-03-29T19:46:58Z")
It sounds to me like ex-husband has issues about transsexualism and homosexuality-- he referred to his former wife of 18 years as “that person.” Seems to me that spending nearly a third of your life with someone should earn them a gender-specific pronoun, even if it is the wrong one. I can’t help but think that he’s just embarassed he used to be married to Julio, and is reaching for any excuse to not have to financially support him. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-sex-change-for-an-ex-wife-end-ex-husbands-alimony-payments/397878/36 "2007-03-29T20:50:41Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] I don’t think they convey exactly the same meaning. “Gift,” as a verb, implies giving something freely as an act of kindness, expecting no reward. “Give” doesn’t carry any motivational connotations, and can be done conditionally, grudgingly, or under duress. I _gift_ things to my family because I love them. I _give_ money to the IRS because they’ll arrest me if I don’t. [/QUOTE] I am old, and my memory is failing more and more each day, but it seems to me that using ‘gift’ as a verb is a new construction. At any rate, back in the day, there was never any confusion as to whether a thing that was given was, in fact, a gift. The context pretty much made it clear. 'To gift" just sounds jarring and abrasive. I suppose I will get over it if I have to. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-sex-change-for-an-ex-wife-end-ex-husbands-alimony-payments/397878/37 "2007-03-29T21:05:32Z")
[QUOTE=Dob] Hell no the ex-hubby shouldnt have to pay. Unless sex change surgery is now covered by insurance (and It may, but not all, and I doubt any actually) this ex-wife had enough money for the surgery, she/he shouldn’t need alimony payments. The gender of it shouldn’t even matter. i wouldn’t want to keep paying alimony to someone who needs my money and yet drives a porsche while im driving a freakin honda! [/QUOTE] If the husband agreed to pay X dollars per month for X years, that’s the deal. Period. It doesn’t matter how much money the ex has unless that is stipulated in the divorce decree. It’s not like getting a nose job. We’re talking something completely different here. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-sex-change-for-an-ex-wife-end-ex-husbands-alimony-payments/397878/38 "2007-03-29T21:46:59Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] I am old, and my memory is failing more and more each day, but it seems to me that using ‘gift’ as a verb is a new construction. At any rate, back in the day, there was never any confusion as to whether a thing that was given was, in fact, a gift. The context pretty much made it clear. 'To gift" just sounds jarring and abrasive. I suppose I will get over it if I have to. [/QUOTE] But will you ever get used to “regift”? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2007, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-sex-change-for-an-ex-wife-end-ex-husbands-alimony-payments/397878/39 "2007-03-30T02:59:46Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] But will you ever get used to “regift”? 😉 [/QUOTE] Not if I notice that I gave it to him/her in the first place! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Foxy40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Foxy40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foxy40)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2007, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-sex-change-for-an-ex-wife-end-ex-husbands-alimony-payments/397878/40 "2007-03-30T13:03:53Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] It’s an unconventional usage, but it’s correct according to [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com): [/QUOTE] I was out with a toothache yesterday and couldn’t check back with this thread. Thank you for clarifing the meaning of that sentence for me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-sex-change-for-an-ex-wife-end-ex-husbands-alimony-payments/397878.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-sex-change-for-an-ex-wife-end-ex-husbands-alimony-payments/397878.md?page=3)