# Should a six pack a day drinking habit cost a person his drivers license? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 16, 2004, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-six-pack-a-day-drinking-habit-cost-a-person-his-drivers-license/255451 "2004-07-16T17:42:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kel_Varnsen_Latex_Division)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-six-pack-a-day-drinking-habit-cost-a-person-his-drivers-license/255451/1 "2004-07-16T17:42:40Z")
This just seems wrong. Drinking six beers a day doesn’t mean you drive drunk. How can the state do this? What ever happened to doctor patient confidentiality? [http://www.azcentral.com/php-bin/clicktrack/print.php?referer=http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/0715backpagefiller15.html](http://www.azcentral.com/php-bin/clicktrack/print.php?referer=http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/0715backpagefiller15.html) ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-six-pack-a-day-drinking-habit-cost-a-person-his-drivers-license/255451/2 "2004-07-16T18:00:37Z")
Bad news… > [@](#): > > A state law dating to the 1960s requires doctors to report any physical or mental impairments that **could** compromise a patient’s ability to drive safely… It doesn’t say they have to report instances where he did drive unsafely, just that it was possible. On the other hand… > [@](#): > > … Nissley said she could not discuss the details of Emerich’s case because of confidentiality requirements that also protect the doctor from being identified… They do seem cognizant of doctor-patient confidentiality. On the other hand… > [@](#): > > The law requires revocation of the license until the driver can prove he is competent to drive. How does he do this? Show up and pass a breathalyzer test? And finally… > [@](#): > > Emerich said his heart problem has prompted him to limit his beer drinking to weekends. \*\*Aside from a drunken-driving conviction when he was 21, \*\* Whoops. ---
**Author:** ![Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kel_Varnsen_Latex_Division)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-six-pack-a-day-drinking-habit-cost-a-person-his-drivers-license/255451/3 "2004-07-16T18:13:22Z")
[quote] Emerich said his heart problem has prompted him to limit his beer drinking to weekends. Aside from a drunken-driving conviction when he was 21, [quote] That was 23 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![PeeQueue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@PeeQueue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PeeQueue)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-six-pack-a-day-drinking-habit-cost-a-person-his-drivers-license/255451/4 "2004-07-16T20:29:10Z")
That is an absolute travesty. How anyone could defend this and not be outraged is beyond me. This “driving is a privilege, not a right” BS has got to go. This isn’t 1930 anymore. Driving is nearly a requirement to a normal life in most areas of the country - to deny someones ability to drive removes their ability to get many jobs and generally take care of themselves. The government needs to be restricted regarding how easy it is to remove this “privilege”. Geez, it makes me sick that we have to thank our Mommy Government for “allowing” us to drive. If I do something that endangers others, sure punish me, but the burden of proof should be on the government, not the citizen anymore. Regarding this particular case - at what point will doctors start calling the government to tell them that they are “too old”, or too at risk of heart attack, to drive. Anyone with a cholestoral count above X can no longer drive. Over 300 lbs? Sorry you can’t drive. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-six-pack-a-day-drinking-habit-cost-a-person-his-drivers-license/255451/5 "2004-07-16T21:02:18Z")
Well if it’s illegal it’s a very bad law. This comes close to the premise of the movie “Minority Report” where you are found guilty of a crime before you commit it. Six beers a day is a lot but you can certainly drink them at night and be sober in the morning. Speaking of which, I assume the fellow has an eight hour a night sleeping habit. He can’t very well drive while asleep, can he? Let’s yank all the licenses. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-six-pack-a-day-drinking-habit-cost-a-person-his-drivers-license/255451/6 "2004-07-16T21:04:34Z")
> [@PeeQueue](#): > > This “driving is a privilege, not a right” BS has got to go. This isn’t 1930 anymore. Driving is nearly a requirement to a normal life in most areas of the country - to deny someones ability to drive removes their ability to get many jobs and generally take care of themselves. The government needs to be restricted regarding how easy it is to remove this “privilege”. Short of a state or federal constitutional amendment, you are not going to get a simple privilege raised toi the level of a right. And with the amount of wacko drivers already on the road, don’t expect this to happen anytime soon. > [@](#): > > Regarding this particular case - at what point will doctors start calling the government to tell them that they are “too old”, or too at risk of heart attack, to drive. Anyone with a cholestoral count above X can no longer drive. Over 300 lbs? Sorry you can’t drive. Considering the purchase of a home now triggers the USA Patriot Act and federal government notification (all those sleeper terrorist buying homes, you know!), the more immediate concerns of road safety won’t be touched. I would think we will see greater scrutiny of drivers not too far down the road (and take a hard right!). ---
**Author:** ![FilmGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@FilmGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FilmGeek)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-six-pack-a-day-drinking-habit-cost-a-person-his-drivers-license/255451/7 "2004-07-16T22:39:51Z")
> [@PeeQueue](#): > > That is an absolute travesty. How anyone could defend this and not be outraged is beyond me. > > This “driving is a privilege, not a right” BS has got to go. . Driving is a priviledge and not a right. By no means should it ever be a ‘right’. It’s a convenience. This isn’t a slippery slope. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-six-pack-a-day-drinking-habit-cost-a-person-his-drivers-license/255451/8 "2004-07-16T22:52:05Z")
It’s a steep, smoothly polished, vaseline covered slope. It isn’t the State’s business if someone drinks enough beer to float a battleship everyday and has a driver’ license. Not too mention docto patient priviledge. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-six-pack-a-day-drinking-habit-cost-a-person-his-drivers-license/255451/9 "2004-07-16T23:14:59Z")
> [@](#): > > “What I do in the privacy of my own home is none of PennDOT’s business,” he said. I agree with him. Driving is a privilege and not a right, but that privilege shouldn’t be revoked arbitrarily. I’d be willing to bet that the judge gives him his license back; I can’t imagine a judge revoking a license when there’s no evidence that the guy is drinking and driving. I think these doctors and PennDOT might be misinterpreting the law; usually when doctors make these reports it’s because the personhas a medical condition like poor eyesight or a muscular disorder that makes them unsuitable drivers. Applying the law to heavy drinkers is just going to encourage people to lie to their doctors. Speaking of which, I’d switch doctors. ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-six-pack-a-day-drinking-habit-cost-a-person-his-drivers-license/255451/10 "2004-07-16T23:25:53Z")
This guy doesn’t sound like a drunk driver. Oh, sure, he’s a drunk. Long as he’s sober on the road, though, I don’t see the point of taking his license. ---
**Author:** ![great\_glowing\_balls\_of\_jelly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/67e7ee/32.png) [@great\_glowing\_balls\_of\_jelly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/great_glowing_balls_of_jelly)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-six-pack-a-day-drinking-habit-cost-a-person-his-drivers-license/255451/11 "2004-07-17T01:26:30Z")
> [@FilmGeek](#): > > Driving is a priviledge and not a right. By no means should it ever be a ‘right’. It’s a convenience. > > This isn’t a slippery slope. yep not having to walk 14+ miles a day through the nasty Michigan elements is such a privilage and a convinance :rolleyes: It’s a necessity that should removed only when it poses a clear and unreasonable danger. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-six-pack-a-day-drinking-habit-cost-a-person-his-drivers-license/255451/12 "2004-07-17T01:33:22Z")
People, we still don’t really know the medical side of it. The doc might have uncovered hepatic encephalopathy, for all we know. If I’ve got a patient whose ammonia levels are significantly elevated, but tells me he plans to continue drinking, I will NOT consider him a safe or competent driver. And I **will** report him. Now consider the reporting requirement from the physician’s side. Say this guy takes out an old lady escorting kindergarteners across the street while drunk. Survivors uncover that his excess drinking was noted by his doctor, but **not reported in apparent violation of law**. You think the physician will come out of this with gonads intact? I’m not a big fan of “one size fits all” laws like this, leaving too much up to individual interpretation by physicians, DAs, and judges. But I think we should withhold judgement until the particular facts are really known. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-six-pack-a-day-drinking-habit-cost-a-person-his-drivers-license/255451/13 "2004-07-17T01:39:02Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > And I **will** report him. . Since your a prison doctor, their isn’t much wrong with that. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-six-pack-a-day-drinking-habit-cost-a-person-his-drivers-license/255451/14 "2004-07-17T02:10:18Z")
> [@PeeQueue](#): > > Regarding this particular case - at what point will doctors start calling the government to tell them that they are “too old”, or too at risk of heart attack, to drive. Well, we already tell some folks that they’re “too young” to drive. If that’s OK, surely “too old” is OK as well. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-six-pack-a-day-drinking-habit-cost-a-person-his-drivers-license/255451/15 "2004-07-17T03:02:19Z")
> [@Kel Varnsen - Latex Division](#): > > This just seems wrong. Drinking six beers a day doesn’t mean you drive drunk. The article doesn’t say he drinks six beers a day, though. > [@](#): > > HARRISBURG, Pa. - A man who told his doctors that he drinks **more than** a six-pack of beer per day is now fighting to get his driver’s license back because the physicians apparently reported him to the state. This could be seven beers, it could be 27. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-six-pack-a-day-drinking-habit-cost-a-person-his-drivers-license/255451/16 "2004-07-17T04:58:50Z")
Oh, for heaven’s sake, states revoke licenses for less than that all the time. My license was once revoked because I’m epileptic and had a seizure 2 1/2 years before. It was reinstated after medical review showed that I was medically controlled and didn’t pose a threat, but that process took a couple months and cost me $50. It didn’t even make the news, much less have people up in arms. I’m just not seeing anything worth getting all worked up about here. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-six-pack-a-day-drinking-habit-cost-a-person-his-drivers-license/255451/17 "2004-07-17T11:06:34Z")
As usual, the news story is one-sided, incomplete, and contradictory. Just look at these two quotes: > [@](#): > > A man who told his doctors that he drinks more than a six-pack of beer per day… > [@](#): > > Emerich said his heart problem has prompted him to limit his beer drinking to weekends. So…which is it? _Daily_ drinking or _weekend_ drinking? What’s this “heart condition” and how serious is it? Is it possible the doc reported him for the heart condition and mentioned the drinking as an additional complicating factor, but the guy in question, when interviewed, glossed over his heart problems and emphasized the six pack? While I agree that what he does in the privacy of his own home is _generally_ nobody’s business, that changes when what he does _can affect other people_. He might well be an excellent driver at this point in time, but if he’s at high risk of sudden death or incapacitation he is not a _safe_ driver. Certain conditions DO impose a burden on the driver - in **CrazyCatLady** ’s situation she had to provide reasonable evidence that she was not going to have a seizure behind the wheel. It’s not a matter of whether she drives well or not, it’s a matter that you have to be _concious_ to drive well. I myself have some vision problems - and the state is entirely justified in insisting that I wear corrective lenses and periodically demonstrate that my ability to see is adequate to drive safely. Should I ever arrive at the Department of Motor Vehicles and fail the vision test they are _entirely_ justified in pulling my license until such time as I can satisfy their requirements. Likewise, this person mentioned in the OP apparently triggered some sort of alarm in this doctor. And, as I said, maybe it’s the heart disease that’s the problem, not the drinking, and someone is in heavy denial. _You do not have a right to endanger others_ Driving is a **privilege** , not a **right**. Want to keep that privilege? Then you’re going to have to play by the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-six-pack-a-day-drinking-habit-cost-a-person-his-drivers-license/255451/18 "2004-07-17T12:40:03Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > As usual, the news story is one-sided, incomplete, and contradictory. Probably true. > [@Broomstick](#): > > So…which is it? _Daily_ drinking or _weekend_ drinking? What’s this “heart condition” and how serious is it? Is it possible the doc reported him for the heart condition and mentioned the drinking as an additional complicating factor, but the guy in question, when interviewed, glossed over his heart problems and emphasized the six pack? None of this is the state’s business, until there is reasonable cause to suspect that he is engaged in driving drunk. Innocent until proven guilty, and all that. > [@Broomstick](#): > > Certain conditions DO impose a burden on the driver - in **CrazyCatLady** ’s situation she had to provide reasonable evidence that she was not going to have a seizure behind the wheel. Having a seizure is non-voluntary. Not driving while drunk is voluntary. Unless you can demonstrate the criminal behavior of driving while drunk, you cannot impose the sanctions involved in being convicted of DUI. A conviction 23 years ago does not demonstrate that, as **Kel Varnsen** points out. Unless he has been on probation for the last twenty-three years. > [@Broomstick](#): > > _You do not have a right to endanger others_. But that right is not absolute, and cannot be revoked by the state without due process. I get the feeling there is more to the story than we are reading. But I was struck by this gem: > [@](#): > > Nissley said she could not discuss the details of Emerich’s case because of confidentiality requirements that also protect the doctor from being identified. The confidentialy requirements allow you to release his name, his occupation, his medical conditions, and how much he drinks - but not the name of the doctor who ratted him out. :rolleyes: Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-six-pack-a-day-drinking-habit-cost-a-person-his-drivers-license/255451/19 "2004-07-17T12:42:12Z")
Well, I suppose I can see some arguments in favor of requiring people to prove their competance to drive - though I notice apparently “being an incompetant asshole” isn’t enough to trigger them, judging by a lot of other drivers. ---
**Author:** ![cookeze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@cookeze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cookeze)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-six-pack-a-day-drinking-habit-cost-a-person-his-drivers-license/255451/20 "2004-07-17T20:52:35Z")
So the next time I go to a doctor, since he is an agent of the police, should I insist that I be advised of my rights and supplied with a lawyer before I answer, “So, how are you feeling?” It’s clever how they trick you into providing evidence against yourself. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-six-pack-a-day-drinking-habit-cost-a-person-his-drivers-license/255451.md?page=2)