# Should a white person be ashamed for being white? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 28, 2020, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-white-person-be-ashamed-for-being-white/854634 "2020-05-28T23:07:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-white-person-be-ashamed-for-being-white/854634/21 "2020-05-29T02:01:28Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > I imagine this’d be a difficult interpretation to evidence. Maybe? I mean, whenever I see somebody claiming that they’re “ashamed to be white”, it’s always in the context of some aspect of actual racism and bigotry. I don’t see anyone saying they’re “ashamed to be white” in the context of, say, what shade of makeup they wear or which SPF sunscreen they have to use. Or, for that matter, in the context of foods or hobbies that tend to be coded as “culturally white” but politically neutral, such as tying trout flies or baking snickerdoodles. So I think it’s quite reasonable to interpret statements about being “ashamed to be white” as rejections of the pernicious ideology of white racism, rather than a condemnation of merely having white skin or being racially categorized as white. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-white-person-be-ashamed-for-being-white/854634/22 "2020-05-29T03:14:46Z")
> [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](#): > > The resurgence of police chokeholds and racism under Trump has made some people feel that white people should be ashamed of being white. > > What do you think? What people feel that white people should be ashamed for being white? If those people exist, they’re wrong. Racists should be ashamed of being racists, but there no reason anyone should be ashamed of what color their skin is. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-white-person-be-ashamed-for-being-white/854634/23 "2020-05-29T03:17:36Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > No. I’ve seen lots of people online (some here) say they’re ashamed of being white, but they’re just losers who are trying to make this all about them. It’s pretty sad. Right here on this board? Then you should have no trouble finding those posts and linking to them. We’ll wait here. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-white-person-be-ashamed-for-being-white/854634/24 "2020-05-29T03:40:23Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Sure, but what I said is that “I haven’t seen anybody arguing that the mere fact of being racially identified as white is anything for anybody to be ashamed of”. I know. I even acknowledged that your statement was correct. > [@](#): > > ISTM that when people colloquially use the phrase “ashamed to be white”, it means something quite different. Namely, that they’re ashamed of the racism and bigotry that has been so pervasive in traditionally white-supremacist culture, and ashamed that they’re still the beneficiaries of societal privilege based on that racism and bigotry, and ashamed of the continued failure of white people in general to effectually stamp out that racism and bigotry. I think you’re essentially correct in that’s what many people mean, but when combined with other habits, like apologetically disclosing one is white when entering a thread, I think the meaning shifts a bit. But I’ve always found it grating whenever I hear someone say, “It makes me ashamed to be…” so maybe this is just a quirk of mine. When people say that I think they’re doing two things: Making it about themselves and virtue signaling. “Hey, folks, I’m a white dude but I subscribe to privilege theory and I want you to know that I fit in here.” ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-white-person-be-ashamed-for-being-white/854634/25 "2020-05-29T10:40:54Z")
It’s certainly nothing to be proud of. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-white-person-be-ashamed-for-being-white/854634/26 "2020-05-29T10:56:12Z")
The subtext of this OP, I suggest, may be something like: “I am sick and tired of liberals trying to make me feel bad about my racism, which I call something else far more flattering like realism or common sense, or traditional values. White people who are ashamed of the behavior of white people are pathetic losers, and I refuse to be one of those. Apologies are for the weak.” That’s what I smell, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-white-person-be-ashamed-for-being-white/854634/27 "2020-05-29T11:42:20Z")
“I’m ashamed to be white” tends to mean, “#notallwipipo, and specifically not me!” It’s a way for people to distance themselves from systems of white supremacy, when those systems are inconveniencing or embarrassing for them. It gets up my nose when I see it, because it’s not a statement of anti-racism; it’s an abdication of responsibility for fixing this shit. No, of course you shouldn’t be ashamed of your skin color. But if you’re an American who gets identified as white, you benefit from an enormous structure of inequality and violent oppression. Your focus shouldn’t be on letting everyone know how embarrassed you are about your skin color, that’s stupid and vain, your focus should be on figuring out how you’re gonna leverage your advantages to help dismantle the structures of white supremacy. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-white-person-be-ashamed-for-being-white/854634/28 "2020-05-29T12:09:23Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > “I’m ashamed to be white” tends to mean, “#notallwipipo, and specifically not me!” It’s a way for people to distance themselves from systems of white supremacy, when those systems are inconveniencing or embarrassing for them. I think this is pretty much always true. “I’m ashamed to be white,” pretty much means “I’m ashamed of white people, which unfortunately includes me.” It’s a bit of hyperbole, since the person must know that not every single white person espouses the horrible opinion. But I know how it feels, and I have probably even said “I’m ashamed to be white,” after a particularly egregious example of racism came to the fore. I have also had moments when I said I was ashamed to be Jewish. I specifically recall expressing this opinion when Yigal Amir shot Yitzhak Rabin. In neither instance was I genuinely prepared to renounce a characteristic I was born with, had I been able to. It was hyperbole. But it was sincerely expressed hyperbole to make a point I genuinely believed in. > [@](#): > > It gets up my nose when I see it, because it’s not a statement of anti-racism; it’s an abdication of responsibility for fixing this shit. Well, it’s not when I say it. I think I know what you mean, though; I do know a lot of white people who do seem to think that by verbally distancing themselves from racism, they distance themselves from any responsibility for it. These are the kind of people who tend to enumerate their black friends any time the subject of racism comes up, and also to talk a lot about the black person they dated once in college, 28 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-white-person-be-ashamed-for-being-white/854634/29 "2020-05-29T13:53:22Z")
> [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](#): > > A lot of people on Twitter, social media, etc. Twitter is full of insane people. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-white-person-be-ashamed-for-being-white/854634/30 "2020-05-29T14:15:08Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > I don’t think so, but what a provocative question! > > Is provocative the right word? No, but the right word gets you a warning. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-white-person-be-ashamed-for-being-white/854634/31 "2020-05-29T14:16:31Z")
> [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](#): > > The resurgence of police chokeholds and racism under Trump has made some people feel that white people should be ashamed of being white. > > What do you think? No, what do _you_ think. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-white-person-be-ashamed-for-being-white/854634/32 "2020-05-29T15:31:25Z")
> [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](#): > > The resurgence of police chokeholds and racism under Trump has made some people feel that white people should be ashamed of being white. > > What do you think? I think this is both pretty half-assed as a debate topic, possibly intentionally inflammatory and perilously close to our ‘Tired Topic’ of one race being inherent inferior. Try again. Do better. Closed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-a-white-person-be-ashamed-for-being-white/854634.md?page=1)