# Should adulterers be jailed (and why not)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 22, 2004, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-adulterers-be-jailed-and-why-not/225551 "2004-01-22T01:26:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SteveEisenberg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@SteveEisenberg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveEisenberg)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-adulterers-be-jailed-and-why-not/225551/21 "2004-01-24T01:31:28Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > \*a repeal of no-fault/irreconcilable differences divorce laws I am all for this, especially if children are involved. Should beaten spouses have grounds for divorce? Or a spouse with a documented long-standing pattern of being a true mental cruelty victim? You bet. But should people who are just tired of it all have the right to walk away with, or from, their kids and take on a trophy wife? No. The fact of the adulterer having no standing to request a divorce (since only the innocent party can file) would greatly reduce non-essential divorce, as it did when it was the law. Going back to the pre-1950 world of fault-only divorce, the big objection to the laws at that time was that a certain number of cooperating but unhappy spouses staged adultery in front of a detective to get a divorce. So what. Having to go through this humiliating (and expensive) charade made people a lot less likely to break up their family in borderline cases. Gay marriage? Sure. Real permanent marriage. Look, anyone can agree to a real permanent marriage of the heart, law or no law. But as a legal entity, gay marriage can’t kill marriage because, with a 50% divorce rate and widespread acceptance of illegitimacy, marriage as a legally binding force already is dead. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-adulterers-be-jailed-and-why-not/225551/22 "2004-01-24T01:38:54Z")
> [@SteveEisenberg](#): > > And most Jews, in my experience, tend to be pretty lenient on the sins in which they regularly engage (pride, gossip, and fraud) > > Seriously, lying and coveting are done by everyone, although it is possible to keep them to a minimum. Adultery, unless the marriage is some kind of arrangement, is something else and is certainly not “regularly” engaged in by “most Christians.” If this kind of language was used repeatedly against Jews, Moslems, or Hindus, the poster would probably not last long here, but against the Christians you can get away with a lot. One of the [most conservative estimates](http://health.discovery.com/centers/loverelationships/articles/lovelust.html) I found states that 25% of men and 15% of women will engage in adultery at some time during their married life. (Some polls more than double these figures.) Since roughly 87% of Americans identify as Christian and the current census states that there are [54,317,000 married couples in the United States](http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/hh-fam/98ppla.txt) married couples in the United States as of 1998, this would imply that there are (conservatively) more than 40 million Christian men and 40 million Christian women who are in marriages in the United States, and of this number 10 million men and 6 million women will engage in adultery. (Super Head didn’t say “most Christians practice adultery” but that "_most Christians…tend to be pretty lenient on the sins in which they regularly engage_ with adultery being one of several examples given as possible sins. Something engaged in by 16 million people is enough, I think, to merit the word “regularly” in its occurence. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-adulterers-be-jailed-and-why-not/225551/23 "2004-01-24T02:51:24Z")
> [@SteveEisenberg](#): > > Going back to the pre-1950 world of fault-only divorce, the big objection to the laws at that time was that a certain number of cooperating but unhappy spouses staged adultery in front of a detective to get a divorce. So what. Having to go through this humiliating (and expensive) charade made people a lot less likely to break up their family in borderline cases. IIRC, the big objection to the laws is that people who _were_ getting being abused by their spouses, the people who’s spouses were abandoning them, were abusing substances, were pissing away the marriage - those people who had legitimate grounds were too humiliated and ashamed to get out and instead were staying in families that were far beyond borderline. It’s a lot easier to say “we have irreconcilable differences” than to say “she’s beating the crap out of me every night” when the latter is the truth. ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-adulterers-be-jailed-and-why-not/225551/24 "2004-01-24T18:31:05Z")
Who committed adultery, and who is the better parent, are questions that don’t have all that much to do with one another. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-adulterers-be-jailed-and-why-not/225551/25 "2004-01-24T18:40:41Z")
Some people have mentioned the 10 Commandments so let’s take a look at how all of them apply to U.S. Law: [ol] [li] **No Gods Before Me** - not illegal, in fact the first line of the Bill of Rights proscribes it[/li]**[li]No Graven Images** - not illegal[/li]**[li]Taking Gods Name in Vain** - not illegal, although “damn” and “Christ” do get bleeped on network TV :)[/li]**[li]Keep The Sabbath Day Holy** - not illegal[/li]**[li]Honor Thy Mother & Father** - not illegal[/li]**[li]Do Not Murder/Kill** - illegal[/li]**[li]Do Not Commit Adultery** - not illegal[/li]**[li]Do Not Steal** - illegal[/li]**[li]Do Not Bear False Witness** - illegal only while under oath and other select circumstances[/li]**[li]Do Not Covet** - not illegal[/li][/ol] Hmm, only 2.5 out of 10…maybe the Islamic fundies are right, we are indeed a nation of godless heathens. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-adulterers-be-jailed-and-why-not/225551/26 "2004-01-24T19:27:54Z")
> [@SteveEisenberg](#): > > But should people who are just tired of it all have the right to walk away with, or from, their kids and take on a trophy wife? No. Must be nice in your ivory tower of moral superiority. First of all, people have the right to do what they want. Why should two people who no longer care for each other go through the motions of being maried instead of finding people they actually care about? The answer, of course, is there is no reason. As if return to some nostalgic 1950s morality would cure all the world’s ills. Second, if you do have kids, you still have a financial obligation. As for going to jail for adultury, I just don’t see any reason for it. It really isn’t the governments job to legislate people from being jerks. > [@Rashak Mani](#): > > To illegalize adultery would mean that they would have to be able to monitor your emails… personal phone calls, investigate you and other stuff without judicial permission. Since the US has something called civil liberties that would make prosecuting adulterers quite hard. Well now that I mentioned it… Homeland can already do all those things to you ! Oh my… were they looking for terrorists or for bad husbands ? Why don’t you give it a rest? You hijack more threads than Al Quaida on an airline with this bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-adulterers-be-jailed-and-why-not/225551/27 "2004-01-24T20:37:40Z")
Well, **msmith537** , he does have a point when it comes to courtroom-quality evidence for adultery. Where are we going to find evidence sufficient to stand up in court? The accused has the right not to testify against himself. And unless the spouse actually brings video to court showing the adulterous spouse “in action,” she (or he) has nothing but hearsay. _If_ the adulterer’s partner can be found and be made to testify, the partner can say “no, we never actually had sex.” And I can’t think of anything short of film that would prove otherwise. Emails and phone calls can put together a large pile of circumstantial evidence but no, ah-ha-ha, smoking gun. I don’t know, I can’t see how such a court case would be successfully prosecuted. Any lawyer Dopers have any ideas on this? ---
**Author:** ![SteveEisenberg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@SteveEisenberg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveEisenberg)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-adulterers-be-jailed-and-why-not/225551/28 "2004-01-24T21:15:23Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > IIRC, the big objection to the laws is that people who _were_ getting being abused by their spouses, the people who’s spouses were abandoning them, were abusing substances, were pissing away the marriage - those people who had legitimate grounds were too humiliated and ashamed to get out and instead were staying in families that were far beyond borderline. It’s a lot easier to say “we have irreconcilable differences” than to say “she’s beating the crap out of me every night” when the latter is the truth. amarinth, I think this is reading into a past some present-day concerns. Contrary links are welcome. In any event, aren’t messy divorces in which one spouse, normally the wife, accuses the other of physical abuse (in most cases, I think, truthfully), more common today than ever? As for the humilitation of telling your lawyer you’ve been beaten, I don’t know. Isn’t divorce always a humiliating admission of failure for sensitive people? Also, in cases with children – really the only ones we should give a fig about – doesn’t the truth have to come out for the judge to make a fair decision? If the woman lies to the judge or covers up the story, I would be afraid that she would lose the kids to the bully. ---
**Author:** ![SteveEisenberg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@SteveEisenberg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveEisenberg)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-adulterers-be-jailed-and-why-not/225551/29 "2004-01-24T21:27:04Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Why should two people who no longer care for each other go through the motions of being maried instead of finding people they actually care about? See [Does Divorce Make People Happy: Findings from a Study of Unhappy Marriages](http://www.americanvalues.org/UnhappyMarriages.pdf). People who have no children, or who have abusive marriages, no problem. But children shouldn’t have their lives torn asunder because of highly dubious parental dreams of permanent happiness with someone else. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-adulterers-be-jailed-and-why-not/225551/30 "2004-01-24T21:32:05Z")
Just kill 'em. It would have saved me and the ex the cost of a divcorce. Would have been worth it though. ---
**Author:** ![Lilairen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lilairen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilairen)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-adulterers-be-jailed-and-why-not/225551/31 "2004-01-24T21:53:26Z")
> [@SteveEisenberg](#): > > But children shouldn’t have their lives torn asunder because of highly dubious parental dreams of permanent happiness with someone else. Children shouldn’t have their lives torn asunder by having to live in the same house as people who can’t stand each other and can’t legitimately separate. (I was lucky enough to be old enough to be away at college when my parents’ marriage stopped pretending to work. My brother wasn’t. He’s still walking wounded. That would not in any way be _improved_ by forcing them to stay together.) ---
**Author:** ![pervert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbe5ce/32.png) [@pervert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pervert)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-adulterers-be-jailed-and-why-not/225551/32 "2004-01-24T22:10:14Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > \*illegalization of married men who go to strip clubs I know I’m going to get laughed at, but I honestly don’t know why this one is on the list. Also, I don’t understand what sort of penalties you envision. Would it be OK for a married man to go to a strip club with his wife? Perhaps with a note from his wife? ---
**Author:** ![SteveEisenberg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@SteveEisenberg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveEisenberg)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-adulterers-be-jailed-and-why-not/225551/33 "2004-01-24T22:17:17Z")
> [@Lilairen](#): > > Children shouldn’t have their lives torn asunder by having to live in the same house as people who can’t stand each other and can’t legitimately separate. > > (I was lucky enough to be old enough to be away at college when my parents’ marriage stopped pretending to work. My brother wasn’t. He’s still walking wounded. That would not in any way be _improved_ by forcing them to stay together.) There are no fault divorce success stories, but I don’t see where this is one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Lilairen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lilairen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilairen)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-adulterers-be-jailed-and-why-not/225551/34 "2004-01-24T22:38:30Z")
> [@SteveEisenberg](#): > > There are no fault divorce success stories, but I don’t see where this is one of them. People in misery is never a success story. Forcing them to stay that way is just terrific for the cheeeeldrun who can’t leave. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![oneironaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/47e85d/32.png) [@oneironaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oneironaut)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-adulterers-be-jailed-and-why-not/225551/35 "2004-01-24T22:57:24Z")
> [@Lilairen](#): > > People in misery is never a success story. > > Forcing them to stay that way is just terrific for the cheeeeldrun who can’t leave. :rolleyes: As much as I hated becoming a prize and a bargaining chip in my parents’ long, ugly divorce, my father moving out when I was fifteen is one of the best things that’s ever happened to me. I wish he’d done it earlier, in fact. ---
**Author:** ![Achren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/898d66/32.png) [@Achren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achren)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-adulterers-be-jailed-and-why-not/225551/36 "2004-01-24T23:00:37Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > One of the [most conservative estimates](http://health.discovery.com/centers/loverelationships/articles/lovelust.html) I found states that 25% of men and 15% of women will engage in adultery at some time during their married life. (Some polls more than double these figures.) Since roughly 87% of Americans identify as Christian and the current census states that there are [54,317,000 married couples in the United States](http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/hh-fam/98ppla.txt) married couples in the United States as of 1998, this would imply that there are (conservatively) more than 40 million Christian men and 40 million Christian women who are in marriages in the United States, and of this number 10 million men and 6 million women will engage in adultery. (Super Head didn’t say “most Christians practice adultery” but that "_most Christians…tend to be pretty lenient on the sins in which they regularly engage_ with adultery being one of several examples given as possible sins. Something engaged in by 16 million people is enough, I think, to merit the word “regularly” in its occurence. But that’s self-identification…I know “Christians” who’ve never been to church nor read the bible. Given that Christianity (as an institution and NOT a belief system) had such an impact on the western world, it makes sense that those who are ambivalent about religion might put down Christianity because 87% of Americans can’t be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Achren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/898d66/32.png) [@Achren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achren)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-adulterers-be-jailed-and-why-not/225551/37 "2004-01-24T23:07:02Z")
> [@SteveEisenberg](#): > > See [Does Divorce Make People Happy: Findings from a Study of Unhappy Marriages](http://www.americanvalues.org/UnhappyMarriages.pdf). > > People who have no children, or who have abusive marriages, no problem. But children shouldn’t have their lives torn asunder because of highly dubious parental dreams of permanent happiness with someone else. From what I’ve seen, if the parents are adult enough to put their children first, it’s not always disasterous to the kids. It’s when they fight in front of the kids about the kids, or disrupt their lives by moving hundreds of miles apart that the kids get seriously affected. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-adulterers-be-jailed-and-why-not/225551/38 "2004-01-25T07:22:55Z")
> [@Achren](#): > > But that’s self-identification…I know “Christians” who’ve never been to church nor read the bible. Given that Christianity (as an institution and NOT a belief system) had such an impact on the western world, it makes sense that those who are ambivalent about religion might put down Christianity because 87% of Americans can’t be wrong. And no **true** Scotsmen eat Cheezy Poofs. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-adulterers-be-jailed-and-why-not/225551/39 "2004-01-25T07:35:55Z")
AAAAARRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!! :mad: I wrote a rreeeaaallly long reply to several posters on this with sites and pyrotechnics and pithy turns of phrase and a special guest appearance by Charo, etc., but **there seemed to be a database error** and it was eaten before it could be posted, so I’ll make a really quick disclaimer that was in the doomed post: Most posters here seem to have figured it out, but for those who haven’t: I think that jailing adulterers, criminalizing divorce, etc., is an absolutely _absurd_ notion. The question isn’t to be taken literally so much as rhetorically- why, if marriage (an institution that has known many forms but has existed in every society ever recorded since the dawn of literacy) is so in jeopardy that it needs presidential and constitutional protection, wouldn’t it be more logical to outlaw divorce and adultery and pornography, et al, all of which have had demonstrably detrimental affects on marriages, than to disallow gays from getting married? The former would seem to offer no threat at all (though you never can tell once those “activist judges” get started- that’s how WW2 and polio got started, you know), but outlawing the others would seem to greatly prolong marriage whether the parties involved wanted their marriages prolonged or not. It seems a no-brainer that Gore Vidal & Howard Austen, a couple that lived together for **fifty-five YEARS** , should have enjoyed the same legal rights and privileges as Britney Spears and Jason Alexander, a couple that was married for **fifty-five HOURS** , but that’s not the case. The only real reason that seems at all logical for politicians interested in preserving and protecting marriage **NOT** to go after adulterers is that to do so would piss off a lot more “devout and concerned” folk than an attack on gays would piss off, and the scapegoating and blatant hypocrisy is absolutely sickening. (OTOH, I’d certainly love to see Bob Barr and Newt Gingrich do time.) ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-adulterers-be-jailed-and-why-not/225551/40 "2004-01-25T08:07:49Z")
You know, I was so-o-o-o counting on the Republicans to keep government out of our private lives. (sigh) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-adulterers-be-jailed-and-why-not/225551.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-adulterers-be-jailed-and-why-not/225551.md?page=3)